4 ms·

> Nobody that supported this ruling except the deluded give a damn about life or whatever they were preaching. This is just straw manning the other side's posi

> Nobody that supported this ruling except the deluded give a damn about life or whatever they were preaching. This is just straw manning the other side's position to the extreme. > If they truly cared about the unborn, they would Neither of those are logical implications of being against late-stage abortion, and you don't get to tell others what they should care about.

warent 4y ago
If evidence on their position was completely missing or neutral then I would agree with you. Sadly, this is far from a straw man because there is evidence that they do not care. These are the same people who actively work against giving children school lunches, who protect racist gerrymandering, who want to defund planned parenthood, and so on. If, in the same breath, we were talking about significantly revolutionizing support for children/families in poverty, then this would be a different discussion. Sadly, look at the polls, this is majority boomers who no longer have functioning ovaries & men whose egos demand control over women. https://news.gallup.com/poll/393104/pro-choice-identification-rises-near-record-high.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/393104/pro-choice-identificatio...
CuriouslyC 4y ago
The parent isn't wrong. Republicans don't do shit to support "the born" who are ill or live in crushing poverty, they don't give a shit about people, they give a shit about power and this is a lever they've been yanking on to get it for years.
- cato_the_elder 4y ago
  On one hand, you are correct in that the right is more reluctant to use governmental power to improve society. That's in part because they put more emphasis on personal responsibility, and in part because they are skeptical of the government's competence. On the hand, I think the right has done more than they usually get credit for. Median real wages rose significantly under Trump. [1] Nixon created the EPA. [2] At an individual level, conservatives donate significantly more to charities, and give blood more often. [3] [1]: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q [2]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Environmental_Protection_Agency https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Environmental_... [3]: https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/conservatives-are-more-giving-than-liberals/ https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/conservatives-are-more-...
  - CuriouslyC 4y ago
    Christians do give a lot to charity, but a lot of those are christian charities that give aid on the condition that you eat a heaping mouthful of bullshit. It's really just a feel good way for them to try and proselytize.
    - cato_the_elder 4y ago
      > give aid on the condition that you eat a heaping mouthful of bullshit I don't have any stats on that, but it's contrary to my personal experience. When I was a student, there was this Pentecostal group which used to give free food to everyone every Thursday. It was quite unconditional, not even means tested.
  - mikkergp 4y ago
    It seems like if they want to emphasize personal responsibility, they could stop trying to influence laws that prevent people from getting abortions or using contraception.
    - cato_the_elder 4y ago
      > stop trying to influence laws that prevent people from getting abortions I'm not sure if I follow. That seems to me like having more empathy with irresponsible people, possibly at the cost of innocent fetuses.
      - mikkergp 4y ago
        While I won't try to argue with you because abortion is the thing we won't see eye to eye on, what bout the 'or' on contraception, or do you think that responsible people only think that sex is for making babies? On another thought, you think the best thing to do is give people you judge as irresponsible a child? Also, doesn’t original sin mean the fetus not innocent? Is innocence really the important measure? Because lots of things are innocent we don’t care about.
        4y ago

warent 4y ago

If evidence on their position was completely missing or neutral then I would agree with you. Sadly, this is far from a straw man because there is evidence that they do not care. These are the same people who actively work against giving children school lunches, who protect racist gerrymandering, who want to defund planned parenthood, and so on. If, in the same breath, we were talking about significantly revolutionizing support for children/families in poverty, then this would be a different discussion. Sadly, look at the polls, this is majority boomers who no longer have functioning ovaries & men whose egos demand control over women. https://news.gallup.com/poll/393104/pro-choice-identification-rises-near-record-high.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/393104/pro-choice-identificatio...

CuriouslyC 4y ago

The parent isn't wrong. Republicans don't do shit to support "the born" who are ill or live in crushing poverty, they don't give a shit about people, they give a shit about power and this is a lever they've been yanking on to get it for years.

cato_the_elder 4y ago
On one hand, you are correct in that the right is more reluctant to use governmental power to improve society. That's in part because they put more emphasis on personal responsibility, and in part because they are skeptical of the government's competence. On the hand, I think the right has done more than they usually get credit for. Median real wages rose significantly under Trump. [1] Nixon created the EPA. [2] At an individual level, conservatives donate significantly more to charities, and give blood more often. [3] [1]: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q [2]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Environmental_Protection_Agency https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Environmental_... [3]: https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/conservatives-are-more-giving-than-liberals/ https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/conservatives-are-more-...
- CuriouslyC 4y ago
  Christians do give a lot to charity, but a lot of those are christian charities that give aid on the condition that you eat a heaping mouthful of bullshit. It's really just a feel good way for them to try and proselytize.
  - cato_the_elder 4y ago
    > give aid on the condition that you eat a heaping mouthful of bullshit I don't have any stats on that, but it's contrary to my personal experience. When I was a student, there was this Pentecostal group which used to give free food to everyone every Thursday. It was quite unconditional, not even means tested.
- mikkergp 4y ago
  It seems like if they want to emphasize personal responsibility, they could stop trying to influence laws that prevent people from getting abortions or using contraception.
  - cato_the_elder 4y ago
    > stop trying to influence laws that prevent people from getting abortions I'm not sure if I follow. That seems to me like having more empathy with irresponsible people, possibly at the cost of innocent fetuses.
    - mikkergp 4y ago
      While I won't try to argue with you because abortion is the thing we won't see eye to eye on, what bout the 'or' on contraception, or do you think that responsible people only think that sex is for making babies? On another thought, you think the best thing to do is give people you judge as irresponsible a child? Also, doesn’t original sin mean the fetus not innocent? Is innocence really the important measure? Because lots of things are innocent we don’t care about.
      - 4y ago