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Many things wrong with that: - Cryptocurrency is not state-free money. Among other things, it requires functioning infrastructure, stable electricity and inter

Many things wrong with that: - Cryptocurrency is not state-free money. Among other things, it requires functioning infrastructure, stable electricity and internet available at affordable prices. These things are provided by the government everywhere on earth. - Cryptocurrency is not authority-free. Actually, you're trusting several authorities any time you interact with any blockchains. - I'm not denying you got use out of cryptocurrency. I'm sure you did. At first glance it does appear to be some kind of functioning financial system, but it is not. A lot of other people have also lost significant amounts of money with it.

randomhodler84 4y ago
Electricity and internet access are typically private sector commodities and services. There is often still internet without Government. Which authorities? I signed a tx, sent it to the swarm using free and open source software, and it was included in a block. Trustless. No authority. I’m sure lots of people gained and lost fortunes. It’s fine. The trade off is worth it.
- hnthrow1010 4y ago
  No, laying out a power grid is very much not a private sector thing. In most stable countries, the grid is either operated outright by the government or the government leases the grid out to the private sector. The same thing is true with the internet cabling. >Trustless. No authority. This is very, very wrong. It's another one of those marketing lines repeated by blockchain companies that is blatantly wrong if you look into it even just a little. At minimum, you need to trust the "swarm" that you just mentioned. It's effectively acting as the authority and you're trusting it to make the right decisions. And if the swarm goes away, you can't make your transactions anymore; the value of your tokens will drop to zero. >The trade off is worth it. To this date, no one has been able to explain to me clearly what this trade off is. "It's trustless" is not a trade off, that's not communicating what the actual benefit is. And it's also just wrong.
  - randomhodler84 4y ago
    No, you don’t have to “trust the swarm”. You broadcast it at the swarm that can present the highest valid block that satisfies the difficulty equation. This is an expensive proof to fake. The trust we have is the trust in math and physics; eg: not trust. The swarm isn’t going away. It’s grown a lot in the last 14y. You don’t get it because you DONT WANT to understand this. You keep talking about censoring and governments and trust. You can’t accept it because it is.
    - hnthrow1010 4y ago
      >You broadcast it at the swarm that can present the highest valid block that satisfies the difficulty equation. And you have to trust that the swarm will not drop your transaction or devalue your tokens through various means that they have available to them. >The trust we have is the trust in math and physics That makes no sense. The "math and physics" you describe are specific equations that were chosen by the swarm operators to ensure their own profits via block rewards. The swarm can change that math at any time by changing the protocol, and they have already done so several times. You don't get to decide what the math is or whether it's favorable to you, the swarm does, and you're trusting them to keep doing it that way. They are quite literally acting as the sole authority to the system; most bitcoin users are not ever going to run a full node. >The swarm isn’t going away. It’s grown a lot in the last 14y. I should remind you, past performance is not an indicator of future results. >You don’t get it because you DONT WANT to understand this. I understand it very well. What you have been told are marketing lies. If you actually inspect the system you'll see that they're not true.
      - randomhodler84 4y ago
        They cannot devalue your token. The (taproot/segwit) tx is immutable. They can withhold it, yes. That’s why we have fees — humans are greedy, and will likely accept the tx fee as a bribe. There are always other miners that WILL take the money. The Bitcoin difficulty equation has never changed. The math has not been changed. We have newer tx formats, and a newer signature scheme. We also have complete backwards compat. Do you really understand this?

randomhodler84 4y ago

Electricity and internet access are typically private sector commodities and services. There is often still internet without Government. Which authorities? I signed a tx, sent it to the swarm using free and open source software, and it was included in a block. Trustless. No authority. I’m sure lots of people gained and lost fortunes. It’s fine. The trade off is worth it.

hnthrow1010 4y ago
No, laying out a power grid is very much not a private sector thing. In most stable countries, the grid is either operated outright by the government or the government leases the grid out to the private sector. The same thing is true with the internet cabling. >Trustless. No authority. This is very, very wrong. It's another one of those marketing lines repeated by blockchain companies that is blatantly wrong if you look into it even just a little. At minimum, you need to trust the "swarm" that you just mentioned. It's effectively acting as the authority and you're trusting it to make the right decisions. And if the swarm goes away, you can't make your transactions anymore; the value of your tokens will drop to zero. >The trade off is worth it. To this date, no one has been able to explain to me clearly what this trade off is. "It's trustless" is not a trade off, that's not communicating what the actual benefit is. And it's also just wrong.
- randomhodler84 4y ago
  No, you don’t have to “trust the swarm”. You broadcast it at the swarm that can present the highest valid block that satisfies the difficulty equation. This is an expensive proof to fake. The trust we have is the trust in math and physics; eg: not trust. The swarm isn’t going away. It’s grown a lot in the last 14y. You don’t get it because you DONT WANT to understand this. You keep talking about censoring and governments and trust. You can’t accept it because it is.
  - hnthrow1010 4y ago
    >You broadcast it at the swarm that can present the highest valid block that satisfies the difficulty equation. And you have to trust that the swarm will not drop your transaction or devalue your tokens through various means that they have available to them. >The trust we have is the trust in math and physics That makes no sense. The "math and physics" you describe are specific equations that were chosen by the swarm operators to ensure their own profits via block rewards. The swarm can change that math at any time by changing the protocol, and they have already done so several times. You don't get to decide what the math is or whether it's favorable to you, the swarm does, and you're trusting them to keep doing it that way. They are quite literally acting as the sole authority to the system; most bitcoin users are not ever going to run a full node. >The swarm isn’t going away. It’s grown a lot in the last 14y. I should remind you, past performance is not an indicator of future results. >You don’t get it because you DONT WANT to understand this. I understand it very well. What you have been told are marketing lies. If you actually inspect the system you'll see that they're not true.
    - randomhodler84 4y ago
      They cannot devalue your token. The (taproot/segwit) tx is immutable. They can withhold it, yes. That’s why we have fees — humans are greedy, and will likely accept the tx fee as a bribe. There are always other miners that WILL take the money. The Bitcoin difficulty equation has never changed. The math has not been changed. We have newer tx formats, and a newer signature scheme. We also have complete backwards compat. Do you really understand this?