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The liberal exchange of currency (arguably money in this case) is not a "black market." It's only a black market in the context that a government thinks it has

The liberal exchange of currency (arguably money in this case) is not a "black market." It's only a black market in the context that a government thinks it has the right to regulate private transactions to the extent that the physical address of a recipient needs to be on record. Is it a black market when I pay the neighbor kid to mow my lawn and don't report their address? Nonsense.

epwr 4y ago
> Is it black market when I pay the neighbor kid to mow my lawn and don't report their address? Nonsense. No, but it is illegal for financial institutions (and many industries) to provide services without knowing who they are serving. Not sure how anyone is surprised that KYC requirements are coming for crypto..
- throwaway5959 4y ago
  Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by ignorance.
- burnished 4y ago
  Probably because banking stuff is cryptic and KYC sounds like something that is dredged in flour and 21 seasonings before being fried crisp instead of a very real obligation.
wrycoder 4y ago
In the US, if you pay him over $650 a year, you have to file a 1099 with the IRS.
- criddell 4y ago
  I just googled 1099 and this is what I found: > If you made a payment during the calendar year as a small business or self-employed (individual), you are most likely required to file an information return to the IRS. I don’t think that covers a homeowner paying for services. I’ve paid an appliance repair person more than that this year. I’m thinking about updating my home’s HVAC and that’s going to be way more than that. I hired a plumber earlier this year and spent about that. None of these things require a 1099 to be filed and I don’t wee why landscaping would be different.
  - colechristensen 4y ago
    You paid a registered business that pays their own taxes and reports their own income, sales tax was paid, you were the customer. For business to business transactions for contract work or person to person transactions beyond a certain threshold, 1099s are legally required. The difference is if you’re hiring “some guy” vs being a customer of a business.
    - criddell 4y ago
      I have no idea if the plumber or HVAC or any of the other people I hire pay their taxes or reports their income.
  - wrycoder 4y ago
    I double checked. You are correct. Only businesses need to file 1099s for contractors.
lottin 4y ago
That's precisely what a black market is.
outside1234 4y ago
The government has this right. And they are right to assert that, because the alternative is all sorts of bad actors using this alternative currency to do all sorts of things we don't want as a society (money laundering, drug trade, human trafficking).
- ravenstine 4y ago
  No they don't, at least not in the United States. The Government has no rights. It has privileges given to it by the people. Only individuals and corporations have rights. Corruption may have been subverting that principle since time immemorial, but that does not change the fact. The federal government, if it was motivated enough, has the capability to bust your door down and hold you in a cell indefinitely with no trial if it wanted to. That doesn't mean they have a right to do so. It only means the people have allowed them to do it. > all sorts of things we don't want as a society (money laundering, drug trade, human trafficking). Oh, you mean the eternal bogeyman that can be used to justify any conceivable invasion of your privacy by government? Right. What do you say to The Government requiring that your home and all new homes contain cameras and microphones to detect bad actors doing all sorts of things we don't want as a society, like money laundering, drug trade, and human trafficking? Somehow I doubt you'd be on board with that, which is the entire point. You would draw a line in the sand because The Government does not have a right to do that, and those unsavory things that could possibly happen in your home are not a good enough excuse for them to subvert your rights.
  - colechristensen 4y ago
    Detailing discussions by questioning definitions doesn’t help advance your point. A black market is a market that is illegal, not just a market that you personally don’t approve of. Governments are doing what their laws say they can, trying to disambiguate between “right” and “privilege” doesn’t change this. Your point seems to be “they can’t do that because I don’t like it”, which is the basis of a political movement, not a discussion of what can actually legally be done right now. KYC laws are pretty universal, they’re not going away because you say they shouldn’t be real.

epwr 4y ago

> Is it black market when I pay the neighbor kid to mow my lawn and don't report their address? Nonsense. No, but it is illegal for financial institutions (and many industries) to provide services without knowing who they are serving. Not sure how anyone is surprised that KYC requirements are coming for crypto..

throwaway5959 4y ago
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by ignorance.
burnished 4y ago
Probably because banking stuff is cryptic and KYC sounds like something that is dredged in flour and 21 seasonings before being fried crisp instead of a very real obligation.

wrycoder 4y ago

In the US, if you pay him over $650 a year, you have to file a 1099 with the IRS.

criddell 4y ago
I just googled 1099 and this is what I found: > If you made a payment during the calendar year as a small business or self-employed (individual), you are most likely required to file an information return to the IRS. I don’t think that covers a homeowner paying for services. I’ve paid an appliance repair person more than that this year. I’m thinking about updating my home’s HVAC and that’s going to be way more than that. I hired a plumber earlier this year and spent about that. None of these things require a 1099 to be filed and I don’t wee why landscaping would be different.
- colechristensen 4y ago
  You paid a registered business that pays their own taxes and reports their own income, sales tax was paid, you were the customer. For business to business transactions for contract work or person to person transactions beyond a certain threshold, 1099s are legally required. The difference is if you’re hiring “some guy” vs being a customer of a business.
  - criddell 4y ago
    I have no idea if the plumber or HVAC or any of the other people I hire pay their taxes or reports their income.
- wrycoder 4y ago
  I double checked. You are correct. Only businesses need to file 1099s for contractors.

lottin 4y ago

That's precisely what a black market is.

outside1234 4y ago

The government has this right. And they are right to assert that, because the alternative is all sorts of bad actors using this alternative currency to do all sorts of things we don't want as a society (money laundering, drug trade, human trafficking).

ravenstine 4y ago
No they don't, at least not in the United States. The Government has no rights. It has privileges given to it by the people. Only individuals and corporations have rights. Corruption may have been subverting that principle since time immemorial, but that does not change the fact. The federal government, if it was motivated enough, has the capability to bust your door down and hold you in a cell indefinitely with no trial if it wanted to. That doesn't mean they have a right to do so. It only means the people have allowed them to do it. > all sorts of things we don't want as a society (money laundering, drug trade, human trafficking). Oh, you mean the eternal bogeyman that can be used to justify any conceivable invasion of your privacy by government? Right. What do you say to The Government requiring that your home and all new homes contain cameras and microphones to detect bad actors doing all sorts of things we don't want as a society, like money laundering, drug trade, and human trafficking? Somehow I doubt you'd be on board with that, which is the entire point. You would draw a line in the sand because The Government does not have a right to do that, and those unsavory things that could possibly happen in your home are not a good enough excuse for them to subvert your rights.
- colechristensen 4y ago
  Detailing discussions by questioning definitions doesn’t help advance your point. A black market is a market that is illegal, not just a market that you personally don’t approve of. Governments are doing what their laws say they can, trying to disambiguate between “right” and “privilege” doesn’t change this. Your point seems to be “they can’t do that because I don’t like it”, which is the basis of a political movement, not a discussion of what can actually legally be done right now. KYC laws are pretty universal, they’re not going away because you say they shouldn’t be real.