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>Someone, please show me an application where blockchain is essential. That is, a problem that could not have been solved without blockchain that can now be sol

>Someone, please show me an application where blockchain is essential. That is, a problem that could not have been solved without blockchain that can now be solved with it. I would like to fundraise with an international group that doesn't trust US based corporations with their personal data. Is there an existing way to do that? Also, more generally and away from things that start in the financial sphere, a decentralized web-scale database seems to have broad conceptual appeal but the only functioning large-scale instances all come bundled with cryptocurrencies. I think this is largely because we don't a way to pay for servers without the financial layer (and figuring out a way to dial down the financialization while keeping decentralization would be good).

elliekelly 4y ago
Cash?
- iskander 4y ago
  Me and a few hundred pseudonymous individuals on Twitter will...what? Mail different currencies to a trusted central party?
  - engineer_22 4y ago
    What could go wrong? /s
  - elil17 4y ago
    Or mail the currencies to the international group directly?
  - 4oh9do 4y ago
    > on Twitter Don't go changing the goalposts now. You previously said: > an international group that doesn't trust US based corporations with their personal data So no Twitter for you.
- glerk 4y ago
  As in sending cash by mail potentially across borders? Is that really a solution?
  - elil17 4y ago
    Absolutely, you can even get it insured (although there's often a limit in the $1,000s or $10,000s).
    - iskander 4y ago
      Have you ever encountered a project actually fundraising in this way?
      - 4oh9do 4y ago
        > Have you ever encountered a project actually fundraising in this way? https://www.eff.org/files/2020/05/27/eff_membership_form_2020.pdf https://www.eff.org/files/2020/05/27/eff_membership_form_202...
      - elliekelly 4y ago
        I periodically send an envelope of cash to Mullvad. So far I haven’t had any issues.
        glerk 4y ago
        Mullvad supports Monero now, you can save yourself the trouble.
      - elil17 4y ago
        Most projects don’t have any issue using bank accounts because they work well. As others have stated some projects do.
    - z3c0 4y ago
      How does getting it insured guarantee that the money will make it to its destination? That's only to get it back in the instance of theft. Anyone who's ever had family or friends in third-world countries can tell you firsthand that mailing even consumer goods is a bad idea. Mailing cash is plain foolish.
- sneak 4y ago
  This is subject to third party government veto (with or without due process) as it crosses borders. Crypto is not. It's also slow and risky.
alasdair_ 4y ago
> I would like to fundraise with an international group that doesn't trust US based corporations with their personal data. Is there an existing way to do that? Sure, there is a large semi-informal Hundi network to “move” money internationally. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundi https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundi
elil17 4y ago
You send the money to their bank account with SWIFT? Not every bank is owned by a US company. Or mail cash - you can even get it insured. If a US bank won't send money to a foreign bank, it's because the bank is in a sanctioned country (and now you have bigger issues than how to send the money, i.e. legal issues).
- iskander 4y ago
  To whose bank account? Multi-signature wallets are a really nice feature which are cumbersome to imitate in a real bank account (involving physical signatures).
  - elil17 4y ago
    To the bank account of the organization you’re donating to? Or to whatever bank account the org would put real money in after they sell the crypto they get
- hnuaer 4y ago
  I have work done in Venezuela all the time. How can I instantly and for free send them payments if not for Bitcoin Cash or Monero?
  - elil17 4y ago
    BTC and Monero aren’t really instant or free because the recipient has to convert them to real money (and pay fees) before they can use them for most things
4oh9do 4y ago
> an international group that doesn't trust US based corporations with their personal data I don't think it is actually possible to exist in the western (and sometimes nonwestern) world without US based corporations having your personal data. For starters, this fictive "international group" would have to essentially have no internet footprint. Its members would also have to never engage with international groups who themselves have US based corporations as third parties. It's just not realistically doable. Bitcoin has nothing to do with it.
shuntress 4y ago
Could you be a little more descriptive with this hypothetical? How do you communicate from outside the US with someone inside the US without involving any US companies? No Internet (nevermind facebook/twitter/email/etc) because US companies will certainly control at least some of the nodes in your path and probably the DNS.
- whatisweb3 4y ago
  why does the entire thing need to be without a company? User A posts on Twitter that they are crowdfunding an idea or project. Users X which may be one, two, or thousands are willing to support and pay for that. Same could have occurred on FB, WhatsApp, Discord or anything, none of those apps are facilitating the exchange.
  - 4oh9do 4y ago
    > why does the entire thing need to be without a company? Because OP said: > an international group that doesn't trust US based corporations with their personal data That is not realistically possible in today's world, and is an issue way broader than crypto.
    - whatisweb3 4y ago
      The international group of donors does not need to give up any personal data to read a tweet and decide to deposit some of their tokens into a crowdfund contract.
      - 4oh9do 4y ago
        > The international group of donors does not need to give up any personal data to read a tweet https://developer.twitter.com/en/docs/twitter-for-websites/privacy https://developer.twitter.com/en/docs/twitter-for-websites/p... > What information does Twitter collect through Twitter for Websites and how is that information used? When you view Twitter content or Twitter products integrated into other websites using Twitter for Websites, Twitter may receive information including the web page you visited, your IP address, browser type, operating system, and cookie information. This information helps us to improve our products and services, including personalized suggestions and personalized ads.
D13Fd 4y ago
That's an awfully contrived example, and that is clearly not what has driven Bitcoin or cryptocurrency adoption to date.
- iskander 4y ago
  Worth learning more about DAOs. They're sometimes frivolous ("buy the constitution") but often actually interesting (see LabDAO and other funding organizations in the Decentralized Science movement).

elliekelly 4y ago

Cash?

iskander 4y ago
Me and a few hundred pseudonymous individuals on Twitter will...what? Mail different currencies to a trusted central party?
- engineer_22 4y ago
  What could go wrong? /s
- elil17 4y ago
  Or mail the currencies to the international group directly?
- 4oh9do 4y ago
  > on Twitter Don't go changing the goalposts now. You previously said: > an international group that doesn't trust US based corporations with their personal data So no Twitter for you.
glerk 4y ago
As in sending cash by mail potentially across borders? Is that really a solution?
- elil17 4y ago
  Absolutely, you can even get it insured (although there's often a limit in the $1,000s or $10,000s).
  - iskander 4y ago
    Have you ever encountered a project actually fundraising in this way?
    - 4oh9do 4y ago
      > Have you ever encountered a project actually fundraising in this way? https://www.eff.org/files/2020/05/27/eff_membership_form_2020.pdf https://www.eff.org/files/2020/05/27/eff_membership_form_202...
    - elliekelly 4y ago
      I periodically send an envelope of cash to Mullvad. So far I haven’t had any issues.
      - glerk 4y ago
        Mullvad supports Monero now, you can save yourself the trouble.
    - elil17 4y ago
      Most projects don’t have any issue using bank accounts because they work well. As others have stated some projects do.
  - z3c0 4y ago
    How does getting it insured guarantee that the money will make it to its destination? That's only to get it back in the instance of theft. Anyone who's ever had family or friends in third-world countries can tell you firsthand that mailing even consumer goods is a bad idea. Mailing cash is plain foolish.
sneak 4y ago
This is subject to third party government veto (with or without due process) as it crosses borders. Crypto is not. It's also slow and risky.

alasdair_ 4y ago

> I would like to fundraise with an international group that doesn't trust US based corporations with their personal data. Is there an existing way to do that? Sure, there is a large semi-informal Hundi network to “move” money internationally. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundi https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundi

elil17 4y ago

You send the money to their bank account with SWIFT? Not every bank is owned by a US company. Or mail cash - you can even get it insured. If a US bank won't send money to a foreign bank, it's because the bank is in a sanctioned country (and now you have bigger issues than how to send the money, i.e. legal issues).

iskander 4y ago
To whose bank account? Multi-signature wallets are a really nice feature which are cumbersome to imitate in a real bank account (involving physical signatures).
- elil17 4y ago
  To the bank account of the organization you’re donating to? Or to whatever bank account the org would put real money in after they sell the crypto they get
hnuaer 4y ago
I have work done in Venezuela all the time. How can I instantly and for free send them payments if not for Bitcoin Cash or Monero?
- elil17 4y ago
  BTC and Monero aren’t really instant or free because the recipient has to convert them to real money (and pay fees) before they can use them for most things

4oh9do 4y ago

> an international group that doesn't trust US based corporations with their personal data I don't think it is actually possible to exist in the western (and sometimes nonwestern) world without US based corporations having your personal data. For starters, this fictive "international group" would have to essentially have no internet footprint. Its members would also have to never engage with international groups who themselves have US based corporations as third parties. It's just not realistically doable. Bitcoin has nothing to do with it.

shuntress 4y ago

Could you be a little more descriptive with this hypothetical? How do you communicate from outside the US with someone inside the US without involving any US companies? No Internet (nevermind facebook/twitter/email/etc) because US companies will certainly control at least some of the nodes in your path and probably the DNS.

whatisweb3 4y ago
why does the entire thing need to be without a company? User A posts on Twitter that they are crowdfunding an idea or project. Users X which may be one, two, or thousands are willing to support and pay for that. Same could have occurred on FB, WhatsApp, Discord or anything, none of those apps are facilitating the exchange.
- 4oh9do 4y ago
  > why does the entire thing need to be without a company? Because OP said: > an international group that doesn't trust US based corporations with their personal data That is not realistically possible in today's world, and is an issue way broader than crypto.
  - whatisweb3 4y ago
    The international group of donors does not need to give up any personal data to read a tweet and decide to deposit some of their tokens into a crowdfund contract.
    - 4oh9do 4y ago
      > The international group of donors does not need to give up any personal data to read a tweet https://developer.twitter.com/en/docs/twitter-for-websites/privacy https://developer.twitter.com/en/docs/twitter-for-websites/p... > What information does Twitter collect through Twitter for Websites and how is that information used? When you view Twitter content or Twitter products integrated into other websites using Twitter for Websites, Twitter may receive information including the web page you visited, your IP address, browser type, operating system, and cookie information. This information helps us to improve our products and services, including personalized suggestions and personalized ads.

D13Fd 4y ago

That's an awfully contrived example, and that is clearly not what has driven Bitcoin or cryptocurrency adoption to date.

iskander 4y ago
Worth learning more about DAOs. They're sometimes frivolous ("buy the constitution") but often actually interesting (see LabDAO and other funding organizations in the Decentralized Science movement).