5 ms·

I have an epson eco-tank printer. I buy 3rd party bottles of ink once every 2-3 years. The upfront cost of the printer (multifunction model ET-4550) was high

I have an epson eco-tank printer. I buy 3rd party bottles of ink once every 2-3 years. The upfront cost of the printer (multifunction model ET-4550) was high in 2015 ($500) but I've spent maybe $60-70 in ink to print (as of this morning) 19,536 pages (13,954 in color, 5,582 in B/W). I can't see a good reason to keep buying printers that are locked into proprietary cartridges or toners.

rustyf 4y ago
Me too. Credit to Epson for taking this track. I wouldn't consider a cartridge printer again.
- dgl 4y ago
  Sadly only applies to these high end ones; I got a cheap Epson one and found out after moving it to another country, that the cartridges are indeed vendor+region locked.
  - GiorgioG 4y ago
    EcoTank printers don't use cartridges. You fill the ink tanks with ink bottles. They've come down in price, you can buy an EcoTank printer for ~$229. A couple of other companies have followed Epson in offering these kinds of printers. Sadly Brothers' version requires a proprietary cartridge tank.
  - hyperdimension 4y ago
    Region locked ink?! That's a special kind of stupid.
    - NoSorryCannot 4y ago
      They do it for the same reason as anything else: to charge different prices in different parts of the world and still stymie the gray market.
      - yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
        Importing ink from another part of the world isn't gray market, it's a perfectly legitimate option that the vendor happens to not like.
        ac29 4y ago
        Its the definition of gray market: "the trade of a commodity through distribution channels that are not authorized by the original manufacturer"
        yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
        I looked it up and you are 100% correct. I now object to the existence of the term, as it clearly attempts to imply that legitimate activity is close to black market activity, but this is the correct use of the term as it exists. (Thank you for correcting me; it is far better to object to the right thing.)
    - m463 4y ago
      Amusing story. Sun used to sell different (large) CRT monitors to northern hemisphere vs southern hemisphere. Apparently the magnetic field was reversed and the CRT guns would be pre-aligned for the correct part of the world. (insert northern vs southern hemisphere toilet joke)
pfortuny 4y ago
Well, Brother had never done this to date. That is the real shocker.
- troyvit 4y ago
  Exactly. I looked at eco-tanks, and aside from the fact that the tanks would dry out given how little I need to print, it was avoiding the evil printing companies selling those printers. That left Brother: Linux-friendly, inexpensive open printers. Kinda took them at their name.
  - GiorgioG 4y ago
    I'm not trying to sway you - I've never had the tanks dry out. The summer months (when my wife and kids are out of school) the printer mostly sits idle. For whatever it's worth, I have one real complaint with this (ET-4550) printer: It's LOUD and slow, not a great combination. It sits about 6 feet from me in my office and if my wife has to print a 100 page PowerPoint for school - it's maddening. Luckily I have an understanding wife that tries to print after I'm done working for the day.
  - tengwar2 4y ago
    The tanks will probably not dry out. I bought my ET-4500 in 2017, and I'm only half way through the coloured ink from the original fill. They are still working fine.
- m463 4y ago
  Exactly. Brother was my goto printer - I've bought many of them (for myself and family), and recommended them unreservedly to others. sigh.
PaulHoule 4y ago
I have an ET-4550 which I use for photo prints and art reproductions, mainly in small sizes like 4″x6″ and 8″x8″. I am happy with the quality of the output with two caveats: (1) the ink is by no means lightfast. In the room I am sitting in now (bright sun, high humidity) I can perceive fading in prints after just six months. (2) it lacks a rear tray that feeds straight-through so I am at the mercy of the pick roller when it comes to printing on particularly thick, thin or slick papers. Since I always print both sides of the paper, paper that is slick on on the "good" side is often a problem. Epson has two higher lines in the Ecotank range, one aimed at "creatives" that has 6 inks (still dye-based) and another "pro" line that uses pigment based inks (which typically last 70 years or so.) Even though my material costs are super-low and I can afford to replace faded prints, I don't like spending my time to make ephemeral objects so I've had ET Pro printers on order from two different vendors for six months. It seems they've all been eaten by the supply chain monster. I'm not a big believer that I need six inks to get good quality output, but I am thinking seriously about getting an ET Photo if I can since the ink used for that should be more lightfast, although these things are unfortunately terribly documented.
johnatwork 4y ago
Don't they get you by making you change the proprietary sponge/ink pad though? Oh and it's not user serviceable. https://epson.ca/Support/wa00369 https://epson.ca/Support/wa00369
- post_break 4y ago
  I've seen a few guides on youtube on how to replace or clean them out, then a paid service similar to unlocking phones to pay a hacker to reset the counter.
  - no_time 4y ago
    Sounds like we are back at square one. Or even worse because "regular" DRM'd printers are atleast cheap upfront and you can keep it cheap if you are ok with replacing ID chips/flashing cfw.
Spooky23 4y ago
You’re a different category of consumer. One of my teams responsibilities is end user print for a sprawling global enterprise. The market is segmented in various ways to meet the needs of different consumers. We have tiny facilities where a prosumer HP 9000 series MFP is appropriate. Other places with have big $10k copy machines that print for like $0.02-0.04/page
rambojazz 4y ago
Ecotanks have another problem though. After a certain amount of time they lock themselves into "service mode" because the waste ink pad (or other internal parts) are considered EOL by the printer. The printer has locked itself, and you cannot repair it (unless you send it back and are ready to pay hundreds for it). I firmly believe that they are better than the cartridge scam, but let's not fool ourselves by thinking that they actually made a printer for the users.

rustyf 4y ago

Me too. Credit to Epson for taking this track. I wouldn't consider a cartridge printer again.

dgl 4y ago
Sadly only applies to these high end ones; I got a cheap Epson one and found out after moving it to another country, that the cartridges are indeed vendor+region locked.
- GiorgioG 4y ago
  EcoTank printers don't use cartridges. You fill the ink tanks with ink bottles. They've come down in price, you can buy an EcoTank printer for ~$229. A couple of other companies have followed Epson in offering these kinds of printers. Sadly Brothers' version requires a proprietary cartridge tank.
- hyperdimension 4y ago
  Region locked ink?! That's a special kind of stupid.
  - NoSorryCannot 4y ago
    They do it for the same reason as anything else: to charge different prices in different parts of the world and still stymie the gray market.
    - yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
      Importing ink from another part of the world isn't gray market, it's a perfectly legitimate option that the vendor happens to not like.
      - ac29 4y ago
        Its the definition of gray market: "the trade of a commodity through distribution channels that are not authorized by the original manufacturer"
        yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
        I looked it up and you are 100% correct. I now object to the existence of the term, as it clearly attempts to imply that legitimate activity is close to black market activity, but this is the correct use of the term as it exists. (Thank you for correcting me; it is far better to object to the right thing.)
  - m463 4y ago
    Amusing story. Sun used to sell different (large) CRT monitors to northern hemisphere vs southern hemisphere. Apparently the magnetic field was reversed and the CRT guns would be pre-aligned for the correct part of the world. (insert northern vs southern hemisphere toilet joke)

pfortuny 4y ago

Well, Brother had never done this to date. That is the real shocker.

troyvit 4y ago
Exactly. I looked at eco-tanks, and aside from the fact that the tanks would dry out given how little I need to print, it was avoiding the evil printing companies selling those printers. That left Brother: Linux-friendly, inexpensive open printers. Kinda took them at their name.
- GiorgioG 4y ago
  I'm not trying to sway you - I've never had the tanks dry out. The summer months (when my wife and kids are out of school) the printer mostly sits idle. For whatever it's worth, I have one real complaint with this (ET-4550) printer: It's LOUD and slow, not a great combination. It sits about 6 feet from me in my office and if my wife has to print a 100 page PowerPoint for school - it's maddening. Luckily I have an understanding wife that tries to print after I'm done working for the day.
- tengwar2 4y ago
  The tanks will probably not dry out. I bought my ET-4500 in 2017, and I'm only half way through the coloured ink from the original fill. They are still working fine.
m463 4y ago
Exactly. Brother was my goto printer - I've bought many of them (for myself and family), and recommended them unreservedly to others. sigh.

PaulHoule 4y ago

I have an ET-4550 which I use for photo prints and art reproductions, mainly in small sizes like 4″x6″ and 8″x8″. I am happy with the quality of the output with two caveats: (1) the ink is by no means lightfast. In the room I am sitting in now (bright sun, high humidity) I can perceive fading in prints after just six months. (2) it lacks a rear tray that feeds straight-through so I am at the mercy of the pick roller when it comes to printing on particularly thick, thin or slick papers. Since I always print both sides of the paper, paper that is slick on on the "good" side is often a problem. Epson has two higher lines in the Ecotank range, one aimed at "creatives" that has 6 inks (still dye-based) and another "pro" line that uses pigment based inks (which typically last 70 years or so.) Even though my material costs are super-low and I can afford to replace faded prints, I don't like spending my time to make ephemeral objects so I've had ET Pro printers on order from two different vendors for six months. It seems they've all been eaten by the supply chain monster. I'm not a big believer that I need six inks to get good quality output, but I am thinking seriously about getting an ET Photo if I can since the ink used for that should be more lightfast, although these things are unfortunately terribly documented.

johnatwork 4y ago

Don't they get you by making you change the proprietary sponge/ink pad though? Oh and it's not user serviceable. https://epson.ca/Support/wa00369 https://epson.ca/Support/wa00369

post_break 4y ago
I've seen a few guides on youtube on how to replace or clean them out, then a paid service similar to unlocking phones to pay a hacker to reset the counter.
- no_time 4y ago
  Sounds like we are back at square one. Or even worse because "regular" DRM'd printers are atleast cheap upfront and you can keep it cheap if you are ok with replacing ID chips/flashing cfw.

Spooky23 4y ago

You’re a different category of consumer. One of my teams responsibilities is end user print for a sprawling global enterprise. The market is segmented in various ways to meet the needs of different consumers. We have tiny facilities where a prosumer HP 9000 series MFP is appropriate. Other places with have big $10k copy machines that print for like $0.02-0.04/page

rambojazz 4y ago

Ecotanks have another problem though. After a certain amount of time they lock themselves into "service mode" because the waste ink pad (or other internal parts) are considered EOL by the printer. The printer has locked itself, and you cannot repair it (unless you send it back and are ready to pay hundreds for it). I firmly believe that they are better than the cartridge scam, but let's not fool ourselves by thinking that they actually made a printer for the users.