4 ms·

> What more do you want For those who most can to help those most in need, regardless of how that came about.

by guerrilla 4y ago

Dracophoenix 4y ago
So in your view slavery is the reward for success?
- guerrilla 4y ago
  Excuse you?
  - Dracophoenix 4y ago
    Your statement is a rephrasing of the old Marxist slogan "[F]rom each according to his ability, to each according to his needs". How is that not enslavement to others merely for being more able?
    - guerrilla 4y ago
      The burden of proof is on you since you're the one making the nonsensical claim. How is helping people in any way slavery? That sounds insane.
      - Dracophoenix 4y ago
        In your ideal world, can people refuse to "help" or would they be forced against their will? If it's the latter then that is slavery.
        guerrilla 4y ago
        No, that's just something you must have hallucinated, because it's clearly not something I said. You're arguing with spooks. Turns out anarchists aren't really into states, let alone states forcing people to do anything. Maybe prejudice as a mode of inference isn't that valuable after all. Who knew. Don't you dare put "help" in scare quotes either. People are starving and they need help.
        Dracophoenix 4y ago
        > No, that's just something you must have hallucinated, because it's clearly not something I said. You're arguing with spooks. Turns out anarchists aren't really into states, let alone states forcing people to do anything. Maybe prejudice as a mode of inference isn't that valuable after all. Who knew. I concede that I've likely taken your statement the wrong way. > Don't you dare put "help" in scare quotes either. People are starving and they need help. Which people are starving? Where? How did they get into that position? Whenever I hear the word "help", it's for some pet project that is at best a bandaid and ,at worst, a con under the guise of a charitable act.
- jodrellblank 4y ago
  Why would you consider "luck handed me money" a personal success? You're falling straight into "if I have it, I must have earned it, and therefore I must deserve it more than you". Also, moneyed classes have working classes in lifelong slavery. The only escape from having to work your entire life to make someone else rich, is to be rich or to fall out the bottom of the system.
  - Dracophoenix 4y ago
    > Why would you consider "luck handed me money" a personal success? Meeting a need isn't a stochastic process anymore than having a need to be fulfilled is one. I assume you have an actual boss with actual needs and not a probabilistic representation of one. While this model assumes a random distribution as a driving force for wealth, that isn't representative of reality, where individual motivation and personal utility are much more significant factors. It isn't luck that hands one money ,but dedicating one's efforts to discovery, invention, or labor in exchange for a resource or product that one finds more useful. In this scenario one has earned wealth by dint of his efforts and abilities, not by mere lottery. Yes, I do deserve my income. I earned it by trading my labor for money. I have the right to trade my money something that I find more worthwhile. > You're falling straight into "if I have it,".... I would change the statement to "I earned it, I have the right to have it, and therefore I deserve it more than you". This is essentially what it means to own property. Your original formulation makes no distinction between burglars and creators. For example: It's likely that you're typing to me from a computer or phone that you currently have in your possession? Would you say this computer belongs to you or are you simply its steward? Is it wrong for someone to own a computer or must one share it with the world? > Also, money classes have working classes in lifelong slavery. Where does one draw the line at "moneyed"? Who in this country is "enslaved" when cashiers have more money and benefits than lawyers or doctors from half the countries of the world? Most people here can buy more computing power than the vast majority of humans every born on the planet. The only way for your premise to make sense is to assume that earning a salary is slavery in an of itself.

> What more do you want For those who most can to help those most in need, regardless of how that came about.

Dracophoenix 4y ago

So in your view slavery is the reward for success?

guerrilla 4y ago
Excuse you?
- Dracophoenix 4y ago
  Your statement is a rephrasing of the old Marxist slogan "[F]rom each according to his ability, to each according to his needs". How is that not enslavement to others merely for being more able?
  - guerrilla 4y ago
    The burden of proof is on you since you're the one making the nonsensical claim. How is helping people in any way slavery? That sounds insane.
    - Dracophoenix 4y ago
      In your ideal world, can people refuse to "help" or would they be forced against their will? If it's the latter then that is slavery.
      - guerrilla 4y ago
        No, that's just something you must have hallucinated, because it's clearly not something I said. You're arguing with spooks. Turns out anarchists aren't really into states, let alone states forcing people to do anything. Maybe prejudice as a mode of inference isn't that valuable after all. Who knew. Don't you dare put "help" in scare quotes either. People are starving and they need help.
        Dracophoenix 4y ago
        > No, that's just something you must have hallucinated, because it's clearly not something I said. You're arguing with spooks. Turns out anarchists aren't really into states, let alone states forcing people to do anything. Maybe prejudice as a mode of inference isn't that valuable after all. Who knew. I concede that I've likely taken your statement the wrong way. > Don't you dare put "help" in scare quotes either. People are starving and they need help. Which people are starving? Where? How did they get into that position? Whenever I hear the word "help", it's for some pet project that is at best a bandaid and ,at worst, a con under the guise of a charitable act.
jodrellblank 4y ago
Why would you consider "luck handed me money" a personal success? You're falling straight into "if I have it, I must have earned it, and therefore I must deserve it more than you". Also, moneyed classes have working classes in lifelong slavery. The only escape from having to work your entire life to make someone else rich, is to be rich or to fall out the bottom of the system.
- Dracophoenix 4y ago
  > Why would you consider "luck handed me money" a personal success? Meeting a need isn't a stochastic process anymore than having a need to be fulfilled is one. I assume you have an actual boss with actual needs and not a probabilistic representation of one. While this model assumes a random distribution as a driving force for wealth, that isn't representative of reality, where individual motivation and personal utility are much more significant factors. It isn't luck that hands one money ,but dedicating one's efforts to discovery, invention, or labor in exchange for a resource or product that one finds more useful. In this scenario one has earned wealth by dint of his efforts and abilities, not by mere lottery. Yes, I do deserve my income. I earned it by trading my labor for money. I have the right to trade my money something that I find more worthwhile. > You're falling straight into "if I have it,".... I would change the statement to "I earned it, I have the right to have it, and therefore I deserve it more than you". This is essentially what it means to own property. Your original formulation makes no distinction between burglars and creators. For example: It's likely that you're typing to me from a computer or phone that you currently have in your possession? Would you say this computer belongs to you or are you simply its steward? Is it wrong for someone to own a computer or must one share it with the world? > Also, money classes have working classes in lifelong slavery. Where does one draw the line at "moneyed"? Who in this country is "enslaved" when cashiers have more money and benefits than lawyers or doctors from half the countries of the world? Most people here can buy more computing power than the vast majority of humans every born on the planet. The only way for your premise to make sense is to assume that earning a salary is slavery in an of itself.