5 ms·

Soundscapes of the JR Yamanote Line

96 points by picture 4y ago

andreareina 4y ago
Getting a cert error on FF/Android Accepting the risk: oh man that's a hit of nostalgia. I spent a bit of time in Kanagawa and Shinjuku was the transfer stop for getting into Tokyo.
- guessmyname 4y ago
  > Getting a cert error on FF/Android That is because the SSL certificate name only matches *.github.com You need to access the website over HTTP → http://yamanote.style/ http://yamanote.style/
  - dontbenebby 4y ago
    It's better to accept the risk so you get the integrity check of HTTPS. The issue this warning is calling out is that someone who controls the certificate could modify the data, but that's just one person, so if we know it's a misconfiguration not fraud, it's better to click "accept the risk", get an integrity check, and ensure the files are not modified between the server and your client. Look into the NSA's Quantum insert or China's Great Cannon to understand why these integrity checks are important. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tailored_Access_Operations#QUANTUM_attacks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tailored_Access_Operations#QUA... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Cannon#Known_uses https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Cannon#Known_uses
    - lxgr 4y ago
      Getting a valid certificate is really not difficult anymore these days. Github Pages even does it for you, as do many other hosters and web servers. Given that, it seems like a very bad idea to encourage people to override any encryption-related warnings in the browser.
      - dontbenebby 4y ago
        > it seems like a very bad idea to encourage people to override any encryption-related warnings in the browser. I have no idea how you arrived at that conclusion. I literally just explained, point by point, why going to the site without the integrity check is more dangerous and am providing additional citations[1,2]. Please immediately cease your disagreement, as it is actively dangerous and might confuse vulnerable people. If you have specific feedback on why I am wrong (other than a toddlerlike desire to disagree) please feel free to reply below, after making sure to read the cited material provided and ensure you understand the concept of data integrity. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_integrity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_integrity [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_Layer_Security#Data_integrity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_Layer_Security#Data_...
        Cpoll 4y ago
        I think you're talking at cross purposes. The person you're responding to isn't saying that http:// http:// is better than an invalid certificate. They're saying that encouraging people to ignore browser warnings is a bad idea. Bypassing the warning by clicking "proceed anyway" and bypassing it by visiting the http endpoint are both dangerous, the former is simply less dangerous. A technical user can evaluate the risk, which many times are very low, but most users can't. If your threat model includes the Great Cannon (which you cited), ignoring a browser warning is actively dangerous. So in fact it is you that's confusing vulnerable people.
        dontbenebby 4y ago
        Ok I think I get what you're saying. To be clear, my definition "ignoring" a warning is just blindly clicking, not deciding to proceed after careful thought. As for the Great Cannon and/or Quantum Insert, since packets can be routed in strange ways due to the speed of light making some routes you would not expect the quickest, I'd stand by my assertion that clicking through a warning to achieve integrity after examining it and seeing it is from Github, a place it is common to stand up a website then add a custom domain name, is reasonably secure especially on a technical discussion site like HN.
    - Cpoll 4y ago
      > The issue this warning is calling out is that someone who controls the certificate could modify the data No, the issue the warning is calling out is that the server your browser is communicating with can't prove that it's yamanote.style. There's no way to determine whether this is misconfiguration or fraud (though you can apply logic and usually come to the conclusion that it's misconfiguration in this case). Example attack: 1. I host a fraudulent site on GitHub Pages, so it gets served up with the *.github.com cert. 2. I intercept your request to yamanote.style (let's say you're on my network [let's say I'm China]) and send you my GitHub pages content, signed by GitHub with their *.github.com cert. This would look just like what's happening to yamanote.style right now, except that I would be controlling the content of yamanote.style.
lovemenot 4y ago
Nice to hear these. Well done. It's missing the new station that opened before the Olympics: Takanawa Gateway.
- wiennat 4y ago
  The site is probably from 6 years ago https://github.com/hunterbridges/yamanote-style https://github.com/hunterbridges/yamanote-style
geuis 4y ago
The site's https certificate is for github.com, which is why it's throwing the access errors.
1024core 4y ago
When I visited Tokyo, I realized that the JR line went all around the city. So on my second day there, to get the lay of the land, I got on the JR and went around twice, "sightseeing" from the train car. A group of drunk teenagers happened to get aboard and found it extremely hilarious that I was doing that.
- mlindner 4y ago
  I'd be surprised if they were drunk teenagers and more likely they were adults that looked young (this happens a lot with Americans/Europeans mistaking Japanese adults for non-adults).
  - guessmyname 4y ago
    Or, you know, maybe they really were drunk teenagers.
    - mlindner 4y ago
      Drunk teenagers on the train in Japan would draw a TON of attention. That's just not socially acceptable there. Good chance the police would be called on them as well. Even drunk adults on trains is hugely frowned upon.
      - IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago
        Can you be more specific? Ive seen my share of drunks....but aside from coomuters actively avoiding them...no cops ever got involved. In my experience, its fairly common to see an avg salaryman drunk after work drinks. Usually the tell is a very red blush and borderline falling asleep or just acting drunk, but not loud. That being said, i dont think i saw teenagers. Or groups of drunks. Are you saying in cases of group of drunks people, cops got involved?
        numpad0 4y ago
        I think the argument is whether it had been an underage drinking matters, though I do know first year undergraduate students does it a lot
rolfeb 4y ago
This is great. I did a few work trips to Tokyo, and always stayed at Shinagawa, so that tune is very familiar to me. And yeah, I did the sightseeing loop of the city as well!
zaik 4y ago
Japanese only, but a more complete list for the JR lines can be found here: https://hassyaberu.com/ https://hassyaberu.com/
Animats 4y ago
Here are all the Yamanote Line jingles: https://tokyobytrain.com/reference/every-yamanote-line-platform-melody https://tokyobytrain.com/reference/every-yamanote-line-platf... Takadanobaba has the theme from Astro Boy.
- alzamos 4y ago
  I grew up in Tokyo as a child and used the subway twice every day to commute to and from school. I randomly sampled a few of these and the memories and feelings it evoked are incredible. Amazing what a difference a small jingle can make to the psyche. Thank you for posting this.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
nayuki 4y ago
Each station should have two melodies - one for the inner circle and one for the outer circle. Is there a way to access both of them on this website?
- thuringia 4y ago
  There is, if you click on a station, it starts to move to the next station automatically. Which station you click on next, determines if you’re doing the inner or outer loop, the site plays the correct melodies then as well as the in-train direction announcements.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
deebosong 4y ago
Harakuju Station had my fav jingles. One direction had this high energy song. The other way was, as my roommate described at the time, very "pinky punky." Every time I would ride NYC subways, I'd think, "Why is NYC unable to copy Japanese railway systems? What is so difficult about straight-up copying exactly what they did?" I'm sure it's more difficult than what I'm assuming, but there must be layers and layers and layers of bloat and red-tape in NYC. Also, shout out to the Chuo line jingle. It crescendoes in such a way where you feel like you emerge elevated and renewed lol.
astrobe_ 4y ago
Coincidence, I was reloading the BVE train simulator today. I am not train fan, but I like the ambiance add-on makers put in. Installing those add-ons can require some efforts, as most of the times directions are in Japanese [1]. [1] https://hittokey.wordpress.com/2020/12/01/bve-train-simulator-5-6-the-big-english-guide-on-how-to-use-it-and-why/ https://hittokey.wordpress.com/2020/12/01/bve-train-simulato...
httpsterio 4y ago
I'm a bit surprised nobody has mentioned this yet, but glad that I for once have some additional context to offer. These jingles are composed by Minoru Mukaiya. He's mostly famous for being the main keyboardist in Casiopea, a very famous Japanese fusion jazz band. He was the keyboardist until the band went on hiatus in 2006, 29 years in all. His style can clearly be heard in these jingles and he apparently has always had a thing for trains anyways as he went on later to start up a train simulator game company.
needle0 4y ago
The melody for Takadanobaba is the Astro Boy (Tetsuwan Atom) theme, which is due to Astro Boy's in-universe background that states he was built in 2003 at the Ministry of Science, located in Takadanobaba. The current office of Tezuka Productions is also located in Takadanobaba.
jefurii 4y ago
I lived in Tokyo in the early 1990s and remember hearing "Seseragi", which seems like a holdout of an earlier generation of jingles. IIRC there used to be a number of different melodies that used that same bell/keyboard sound.

96 points by picture 4y ago

Getting a cert error on FF/Android Accepting the risk: oh man that's a hit of nostalgia. I spent a bit of time in Kanagawa and Shinjuku was the transfer stop for getting into Tokyo.

guessmyname 4y ago
> Getting a cert error on FF/Android That is because the SSL certificate name only matches *.github.com You need to access the website over HTTP → http://yamanote.style/ http://yamanote.style/
- dontbenebby 4y ago
  It's better to accept the risk so you get the integrity check of HTTPS. The issue this warning is calling out is that someone who controls the certificate could modify the data, but that's just one person, so if we know it's a misconfiguration not fraud, it's better to click "accept the risk", get an integrity check, and ensure the files are not modified between the server and your client. Look into the NSA's Quantum insert or China's Great Cannon to understand why these integrity checks are important. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tailored_Access_Operations#QUANTUM_attacks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tailored_Access_Operations#QUA... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Cannon#Known_uses https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Cannon#Known_uses
  - lxgr 4y ago
    Getting a valid certificate is really not difficult anymore these days. Github Pages even does it for you, as do many other hosters and web servers. Given that, it seems like a very bad idea to encourage people to override any encryption-related warnings in the browser.
    - dontbenebby 4y ago
      > it seems like a very bad idea to encourage people to override any encryption-related warnings in the browser. I have no idea how you arrived at that conclusion. I literally just explained, point by point, why going to the site without the integrity check is more dangerous and am providing additional citations[1,2]. Please immediately cease your disagreement, as it is actively dangerous and might confuse vulnerable people. If you have specific feedback on why I am wrong (other than a toddlerlike desire to disagree) please feel free to reply below, after making sure to read the cited material provided and ensure you understand the concept of data integrity. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_integrity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_integrity [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_Layer_Security#Data_integrity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_Layer_Security#Data_...
      - Cpoll 4y ago
        I think you're talking at cross purposes. The person you're responding to isn't saying that http:// http:// is better than an invalid certificate. They're saying that encouraging people to ignore browser warnings is a bad idea. Bypassing the warning by clicking "proceed anyway" and bypassing it by visiting the http endpoint are both dangerous, the former is simply less dangerous. A technical user can evaluate the risk, which many times are very low, but most users can't. If your threat model includes the Great Cannon (which you cited), ignoring a browser warning is actively dangerous. So in fact it is you that's confusing vulnerable people.
        dontbenebby 4y ago
        Ok I think I get what you're saying. To be clear, my definition "ignoring" a warning is just blindly clicking, not deciding to proceed after careful thought. As for the Great Cannon and/or Quantum Insert, since packets can be routed in strange ways due to the speed of light making some routes you would not expect the quickest, I'd stand by my assertion that clicking through a warning to achieve integrity after examining it and seeing it is from Github, a place it is common to stand up a website then add a custom domain name, is reasonably secure especially on a technical discussion site like HN.
  - Cpoll 4y ago
    > The issue this warning is calling out is that someone who controls the certificate could modify the data No, the issue the warning is calling out is that the server your browser is communicating with can't prove that it's yamanote.style. There's no way to determine whether this is misconfiguration or fraud (though you can apply logic and usually come to the conclusion that it's misconfiguration in this case). Example attack: 1. I host a fraudulent site on GitHub Pages, so it gets served up with the *.github.com cert. 2. I intercept your request to yamanote.style (let's say you're on my network [let's say I'm China]) and send you my GitHub pages content, signed by GitHub with their *.github.com cert. This would look just like what's happening to yamanote.style right now, except that I would be controlling the content of yamanote.style.

lovemenot 4y ago

Nice to hear these. Well done. It's missing the new station that opened before the Olympics: Takanawa Gateway.

wiennat 4y ago
The site is probably from 6 years ago https://github.com/hunterbridges/yamanote-style https://github.com/hunterbridges/yamanote-style

geuis 4y ago

The site's https certificate is for github.com, which is why it's throwing the access errors.

1024core 4y ago

When I visited Tokyo, I realized that the JR line went all around the city. So on my second day there, to get the lay of the land, I got on the JR and went around twice, "sightseeing" from the train car. A group of drunk teenagers happened to get aboard and found it extremely hilarious that I was doing that.

mlindner 4y ago
I'd be surprised if they were drunk teenagers and more likely they were adults that looked young (this happens a lot with Americans/Europeans mistaking Japanese adults for non-adults).
- guessmyname 4y ago
  Or, you know, maybe they really were drunk teenagers.
  - mlindner 4y ago
    Drunk teenagers on the train in Japan would draw a TON of attention. That's just not socially acceptable there. Good chance the police would be called on them as well. Even drunk adults on trains is hugely frowned upon.
    - IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago
      Can you be more specific? Ive seen my share of drunks....but aside from coomuters actively avoiding them...no cops ever got involved. In my experience, its fairly common to see an avg salaryman drunk after work drinks. Usually the tell is a very red blush and borderline falling asleep or just acting drunk, but not loud. That being said, i dont think i saw teenagers. Or groups of drunks. Are you saying in cases of group of drunks people, cops got involved?
      - numpad0 4y ago
        I think the argument is whether it had been an underage drinking matters, though I do know first year undergraduate students does it a lot

rolfeb 4y ago

This is great. I did a few work trips to Tokyo, and always stayed at Shinagawa, so that tune is very familiar to me. And yeah, I did the sightseeing loop of the city as well!

zaik 4y ago

Japanese only, but a more complete list for the JR lines can be found here: https://hassyaberu.com/ https://hassyaberu.com/

Animats 4y ago

Here are all the Yamanote Line jingles: https://tokyobytrain.com/reference/every-yamanote-line-platform-melody https://tokyobytrain.com/reference/every-yamanote-line-platf... Takadanobaba has the theme from Astro Boy.

alzamos 4y ago
I grew up in Tokyo as a child and used the subway twice every day to commute to and from school. I randomly sampled a few of these and the memories and feelings it evoked are incredible. Amazing what a difference a small jingle can make to the psyche. Thank you for posting this.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

nayuki 4y ago

Each station should have two melodies - one for the inner circle and one for the outer circle. Is there a way to access both of them on this website?

thuringia 4y ago
There is, if you click on a station, it starts to move to the next station automatically. Which station you click on next, determines if you’re doing the inner or outer loop, the site plays the correct melodies then as well as the in-train direction announcements.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

deebosong 4y ago

Harakuju Station had my fav jingles. One direction had this high energy song. The other way was, as my roommate described at the time, very "pinky punky." Every time I would ride NYC subways, I'd think, "Why is NYC unable to copy Japanese railway systems? What is so difficult about straight-up copying exactly what they did?" I'm sure it's more difficult than what I'm assuming, but there must be layers and layers and layers of bloat and red-tape in NYC. Also, shout out to the Chuo line jingle. It crescendoes in such a way where you feel like you emerge elevated and renewed lol.

astrobe_ 4y ago

Coincidence, I was reloading the BVE train simulator today. I am not train fan, but I like the ambiance add-on makers put in. Installing those add-ons can require some efforts, as most of the times directions are in Japanese [1]. [1] https://hittokey.wordpress.com/2020/12/01/bve-train-simulator-5-6-the-big-english-guide-on-how-to-use-it-and-why/ https://hittokey.wordpress.com/2020/12/01/bve-train-simulato...

httpsterio 4y ago

I'm a bit surprised nobody has mentioned this yet, but glad that I for once have some additional context to offer. These jingles are composed by Minoru Mukaiya. He's mostly famous for being the main keyboardist in Casiopea, a very famous Japanese fusion jazz band. He was the keyboardist until the band went on hiatus in 2006, 29 years in all. His style can clearly be heard in these jingles and he apparently has always had a thing for trains anyways as he went on later to start up a train simulator game company.

needle0 4y ago

The melody for Takadanobaba is the Astro Boy (Tetsuwan Atom) theme, which is due to Astro Boy's in-universe background that states he was built in 2003 at the Ministry of Science, located in Takadanobaba. The current office of Tezuka Productions is also located in Takadanobaba.

jefurii 4y ago

I lived in Tokyo in the early 1990s and remember hearing "Seseragi", which seems like a holdout of an earlier generation of jingles. IIRC there used to be a number of different melodies that used that same bell/keyboard sound.