8 ms·

Really starting to feel dangerous to live anywhere in the US southwest. Lake Meade approaching deadpool and massive wildfire nearing my house this summer. Plus

• kurthr 4y ago
  I thought the 9 most terrifying words were, "I'm from the government and I’m here to help"? What do you expect the Feds to do about the weather?
  • losteric 4y ago
    > What do you expect the Feds to do about the weather? Intervene and rebalance the water markets, which are currently unsustainable based on bad decades-old science.
    • enraged_camel 4y ago
      Water markets are broken primarily because of water rights, some of which were allocated centuries ago via local and regional contracts. They are nearly impossible to untangle, and state governments are required by law to honor them.
      • WoahNoun 4y ago
        Congress can use eminent domain to untangle them.
        • bogomipz 4y ago
          Can you walk me through how the Federal Government could use eminent domain to untangle the water rights? What exactly is the Government going to expropriate as part of eminent domain? There are seven states that depend on the water from the Colorado River.
          • lovich 4y ago
            > Can you walk me through how the Federal Government could use eminent domain to untangle the water rights? Eminent domaining the water? The federal government at the highest level(SCOTUS) have no problem using eminent domain for things as frivolous as an unfinanced mall with no strings attached for the _private_ developer. They certainly wouldn't pause to eminent domain this if they cared. Unfortunately these are regions of the country that are populated by large groups of people who continually elect local politicians who will blame any convenient boogeyman on their problems. Look at this in 2021 their AG sued the Biden government over not doing enough to stop pollution causing climate change because his administration didn’t crack down on _immigrants_[1]. What exactly is political leadership supposed to do here? Kowtow to the demands that will cost money and absolutely not solve the problem? Or ignore it until the people living with the issue decide to accept that it’s real rather than blaming whatever let’s them continue their lifestyle without any change? [1] https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.huffpost.com/entry/arizona-climate-lawsuit_n_60897a42e4b0b9042d8d6ae5/amp https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.huffpost.com/entry/arizona-...
            • bogomipz 4y ago
              You didn't actually answer my question. It sounds like you might be confused on what eminent domain is. Eminent domain provides the Federal government with the power to take private property and convert it into public use. There is no single piece of land here. This is not only not land it's literally water that flows across the land. Further it's not private property. The Colorado River basin covers 250,000 square is almost 1,400 miles long. Not only do seven states depend on it but Mexico also has rights to it under The Mexican Water Treaty of 1944. To compare it to appropriating land for a mall is absurd.
              • lovich 4y ago
                Then eminent domain multiple pieces of land. You’re ignoring that they have the power to do so, they just don’t have the will. We have built mega projects before and taken land for it. This would be no different
      • PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
        Water rights were not allocated centuries ago. All water managements systems (more or less) in place when the US took control of the southwest were overridden and replaced by US-style private property rights, a totally different system than exists east of the 100th parallel/the Mississippi. Consequently, they date back at most 1.5 centuries, and in general, less than that.
        • oasisbob 4y ago
          > 100th parallel/the Mississippi. Small point, but longitudinal lines aren't typically called parallels because they're not parallel to each other.
          • dredmorbius 4y ago
            More specifically: there are parallels of lattitude and meridians of longitude. https://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-parallels-and-vs-meridians/ https://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-paralle... Meridian from "of the noon time, midday": https://www.etymonline.com/word/meridian https://www.etymonline.com/word/meridian As a mnemonic, the lines of longitude are all equally long (running from pole to pole).
      • PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
        The main agreement affecting the SW today is the Colorado River Compact, which dates back only the 1930s/40s. It is far, far from ancient history, and was demonstrably created in a state of willful ignorance of actual precipitation patterns in the region.
    • c1sc0 4y ago
      Geoengineering. I know that if they won’t do it someone will. Iron fertilization in particular looks cheap enough to try at the non-state level.
      • DyslexicAtheist 4y ago
        > Geoengineering. I know that if they won’t do it someone will. that's true for any terrible idea. in many way's terrible ideas is how humanity progresses. but it seems bad to double down on the same old ("more engineering") to solve the problem. Guess the alternative "spend less" is very unpopular because it's something anyone can do but it actually hurts.
        • c1sc0 4y ago
          I'm all in favor of "spend less / consume less / grow less / be more sustainable" ... trouble is: seems like most decision makers are not ... wildcat geoengineering is no longer a matter of if, but when.
      • formerkrogemp 4y ago
        Do you even know what you're talking about? Are you referring to iron rust being randomly distributed in the ocean or along the coast? All that will do is cause an algal bloom and die off, killing off even more of the depleted marine life. That won't sequester any carbon, at best 0.05% if you do it in a way that forms the sediment. Otherwise, you're just killing what little marine life is left for giggles.
  • jefurii 4y ago
    Pay farmers not to grow almonds or raise cattle - prioritize humans!
• jonny_eh 4y ago
  Maybe the Southwest should elect representatives that believe in climate change.
  • bikingbismuth 4y ago
    Man, we are trying.
  • jdminhbg 4y ago
    All eight Senators from CA, AZ, NV, and NM are Democrats, and I assume they "believe in climate change," although I'm not sure whether simply believing is going to make much of a difference.
    • WoahNoun 4y ago
      Senators don't make local policy.
      • PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
        that was a reply to the suggestion that "maybe" the area should elect senators who believe in climate change. we already have. it wasn't a suggestion that this is actually the answer.
        • erikpukinskis 4y ago
          They said representatives not senators. There are state senators who are the relevant representatives here not federal ones.
          • PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
            CA and NM both have Democratic "trifectas", and it can reasonably be assumed that they are dominated by anthropogenic climate change believers. However, I would dispute your claim. The majority of the land (and thus resources) in the SW is under federal, not state control. Ergo, federal representatives play an outsize role in deciding questions central to the SW role in and sufferer of climate change.
• tjr225 4y ago
  If you live near the wilderness urban interface expect this. Spreading out into mountain/desert suburbs causes issues that you would've never noticed before because well... millions and millions of people never lived there before. This especially applies to any sort of libertarian psycho who wants to live in the middle of nowhere with minimal govt and then when nature shtf they bitch about the govt.
• chipotle_coyote 4y ago
  [flagged]
  • pram 4y ago
    I have heard it used unironically. People in NYC and SF NEVER have anything but noble and well intentioned thoughts and comments about places like Texas? lol what an absolute load of shit
    • chipotle_coyote 4y ago
      You know, I was going to let this go, or just post a snarky "totally not what I said, but you do you, ace," but no. What you did was take what I said, rephrase it to something that I absolutely did not say, and then attack your own rephrasing. You're right. That is an absolute load of shit.
      • pram 4y ago
        “virtually always” and “have never encountered evidence” uh huh
        • lovich 4y ago
          Was he supposed to prove that this is true in every situation for all time or were we talking about general trends? Also New York at least sends aid to Texas in their time of need[1] unlike in the reverse when Texan senators make sure no aid goes to New York in the event of a natural disaster[2]. Actions speak louder than words and I don't see New York as a state treating Texas as a state to abandon while Texas is advocating for anything against NY. [1]https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/21/politics/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-texas-relief/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/21/politics/alexandria-ocasio-co... [2] Grep for `TX` to see the Texan senators vote on aid to New York for Hurricane Sandy relief https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_votes/vote1131/vote_113_1_00004.htm https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_votes/vote1...
          • 4y ago
• smt88 4y ago
  > Plus the government is led by people who refer to much of the southwest as “fly over country” doesn’t help. The people who (you assume) don't use the term "flyover country" are the people stopping Congress from spending money to fix environmental crises like drought. Even so, the White House has ordered studies and gotten Congress to spend a lot of money on the Southwest already[1]. What else are you looking for, exactly? My understanding is that the current crisis is mostly due to agriculture and water rights, and I don't know how they could legally legislate agriculture in a state. That is the responsibility of the state's own government. 1. https://www.usda.gov/media/press-releases/2022/06/01/biden-harris-administration-drought-resilience-interagency-working https://www.usda.gov/media/press-releases/2022/06/01/biden-h...
  • PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
    The bureau of reclamation started building dams and irrigation systems in the 1940s. They enabled current patterns of agriculture. They could disable them too,
  • bagels 4y ago
    Desalinization plants built by California or the Federal Government.
    • dreamcompiler 4y ago
      Desal can work for residential use in cities. But desal for agriculture is supplied by mother nature and it's called "rain." Replacing agricultural rain with man-made desal would require a 10x-1000x scaleup in cost and energy and area over the desal plants now feasible. In most cases it would probably be cheaper to move the farms to rainier areas.
    • smt88 4y ago
      I still don't think I understand how that helps Midwestern and Southwestern states other than California, unless you mean the goal is to give California a way to stop using as much.
• astrange 4y ago
  Isn't flyover country Kansas, not Arizona?
  • vkou 4y ago
    Correct. And most of the time, the federal government is controlled by the politics of flyover country. It has the Supreme Court, has a pretty solid grip on the senate, wins about half of the presidencies, and is looking to sweep the upcoming election. It's go-to solution for dealing with climate change is pretending it doesn't exist (and punishing state employees who say otherwise), and with freak weather events by blaming renewable energy, so I can only expect that things in that region can only get worse, before they can get better.
  • formerkrogemp 4y ago
    Not in the future it won't be.
• bogomipz 4y ago
  I've seen the pictures of the "bathtub" lines on Lake Meade and agree it looks scary however I keep seeing conflicting reports of how imminent the dead pool threat is. Here's an example I came across a few weeks ago. I don't know what the politics of this newspaper are but the person speaking is public affairs officer for the U.S. Bureau of Reclamation’s Lower Colorado Basin Region. It's hard for me to reconcile the math provided with this individuals rather sanguine statement. >"Lake Mead would reach dead pool if the water level dropped to 895 feet, said Patti Aaron, public affairs officer for the U.S. Bureau of Reclamation’s Lower Colorado Basin Region. As of Wednesday, the level of Lake Mead is 1,049.65 feet, she said." >“We’re not in danger of hitting dead pool,” Aaron said. “It’s not an imminent problem. It’s not something that’s going to happen tomorrow, and it’s something we don’t think is going to happen at all. We would take every action to not have that happen.”[1] Perhaps this is also politics? There doesn't seem to be a lot of slack in that system and it almost seems like this person is doing a disservice with that statement. https://lasvegassun.com/news/2022/may/26/understanding-dead-pool-and-how-water-officials-ar/ https://lasvegassun.com/news/2022/may/26/understanding-dead-...
  • ianai 4y ago
    I think this is the raw data https://www.usbr.gov/lc/region/g4000/lakemead_line.pdf https://www.usbr.gov/lc/region/g4000/lakemead_line.pdf Edit-I know far too little to extrapolate from that. It looks like this time of year and into the fall is when the water recedes due to agricultural use. It’ll be interesting to see the elevation at that lowest point.
• jiggyjace 4y ago
  I don't know what news you're plugged in to but I'm not worried at all living in the SW US. Phoenix and Tucson had by far their wettest rainy season in decades last year and are projected to have another wet season this year. And the state of AZ uses less water for 10x the population than it did in the 1950s.
  • oasisbob 4y ago
    It doesn't matter if historical per-capita water usage is down if the lower basin states are continuing to overdraw their water allocations from the Colorado river system. If and when the Colorado River Compact implodes, it's going to be immensely painful to all the states -- but especially Arizona, which doesn't have the same senior rights as other states under prior appropriation.
  • grogenaut 4y ago
    Knowing nothing about Phoenix or Tuscon water management... are there reservoirs for Phoenix or Tuscon that stored this rainfall coming off the local mountains from your wet rainy season? It's hard to untangle where the water comes from, but if not, I'm not sure how it helps.