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> The other end is shows like Foundation which might look like a woke cast at first but if you pay close attention you’ll realize that the galaxy spanning Empir

> The other end is shows like Foundation which might look like a woke cast at first but if you pay close attention you’ll realize that the galaxy spanning Empire has the diverse population due to being diverse while all the smaller planetary kingdoms are ethnically homogenous Well, considering that in the Foundation books there are only humans, their ethnicity it's not an important trait (we can assume they are all white or all black for that matter), while their social class is often outlined and the only real difference is their gender, making it a mixed race show it's a sign of the times. I have no problem with it or the gender swaps. But they had to make it that way because for starters it is certainly more accurate to say that 500 quadrillion people living in countless planets won't look the same, there are 40 billion people on Trantor alone, but it would also been unacceptable for the audience of today to blindly accept the fact that when Asimov wrote the Foundation series he wasn't interested in the skin color of the characters, he was writing of a greater story spanning over a very long period, not about social conflicts over individual identities, which, if you think about it, are a mundane topic in that settlement. But in the end its real fault is being IMO a bad representation of the original material, that totally misses the point.

lovich 4y ago
I happened to really enjoy the section that followed Empire which I understand was off page in the books, and every scene with Hari Seldon. The section following the rest of the foundation was pretty boring to me once they got to their planet. Anyways this sentence I think is at the heart of the question I was asking. > Well, considering that in the Foundation books there are only humans, their ethnicity it's not an important trait (we can assume they are all white or all black for that matter), while their social class is often outlined and the only real difference is their gender, making it a mixed race show it's a sign of the times. Did mixed races no exist at the time of the stories writing? Did the robot characters who looked human but were from a completely different world view connecting not exist? I don’t think additional diversity is as big a sign of the times as the source suggests. Anyways the phrase that sparked my question was “bending objective facts”. A cultural change in what his good or even acceptable story telling is a subjective opinion and not something that can be stretched as far as “objective fact”
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago
  > Did mixed races no exist at the time of the stories writing? Not really, Asimov was born in 100% white Russia and then moved to USA during the 1920s where segregation was still a thing. > Did the robot characters who looked human but were from a completely different world view connecting not exist? Of course there were different worlds with different cultures, rites, traditions, religions and even food (or martial arts), but their look is not taken into great account. Asimov was a biochemist after all, not an anthropologist. I agree that actualization of a work of fiction it is not bending objective facts, my impression though is that content platforms are more following than leading, they are giving the public what the public will consume, which is dull, it is like giving kids candies or cake because we already know they'll eat them. There is no real surprise, no Sam Raimi's The Evil Dead or Carpenter's The Thing/Assault on Precint 13/They live, no Peter Jackson's Bad Taste, everything is so canonical and completely unimaginative. There is no space left for provocative, out of the box, even offensive, creation (unless it is sexually defining for minorities, like a dildo, homosexual intercourse, etc. something that wouldn't even shock my 82 years old dad) In a way they are segmenting the market based on the idea they wanna project of themselves: - Netflix: social activists involved in identity politics, teenagers (with superpower or supernatural powers), binge watchers, kids and some old show to entertain their parents too (all of Star Trek for example, the only reason I still use Netflix) - Prime Video: crime aficionados, intelligent comedy (it better be British), superheroes with a twist, people like me who already pay for amazon prime and are not young anymore - Apple TV: fancy, grandiose, epic stories, that unfortunately lack in writing and results are mixed. For people who love a great cast in a show. - HBO: actual quality content, for people who love to pay for quality content.
  - lovich 4y ago
    > Not really, Asimov was born in 100% white Russia and then moved to USA during the 1920s where segregation was still a thing. It was a facetious question. Of course mixed race people existed! There was no such thing as a 100% white Russia by any definition of the term in any era! It was an imperial state with explicit multiple ethnicities as far as the locals were concerned. Like Jesus Christ, Asimov himself was Jewish and then migrated to the multi ethnic United States when he was three! Do you honestly believe there were states with 100% pure ethnic polities at any point in history? Even supremacists states like the American South in the slave era had other ethnic groups as an underclass and frequently had children with them. Like I can’t even look at the rest of your comment when you’re claiming Russia was 100% white. I couldn’t handle it if you said it was 90% white. All of Siberia? Dagestan? Tatarstan? Chechnya? Edit:looked it up to make sure my Russian history knowledge hadn’t been made obsolete by new primary sources. Inorodtsy was the term in the Russian empire for the non Russian ethnic groups controlled by the empire. You seriously need to take a look through history if you think the acknowledgement of minorities existence is a modern interpretation of historical facts

lovich 4y ago

I happened to really enjoy the section that followed Empire which I understand was off page in the books, and every scene with Hari Seldon. The section following the rest of the foundation was pretty boring to me once they got to their planet. Anyways this sentence I think is at the heart of the question I was asking. > Well, considering that in the Foundation books there are only humans, their ethnicity it's not an important trait (we can assume they are all white or all black for that matter), while their social class is often outlined and the only real difference is their gender, making it a mixed race show it's a sign of the times. Did mixed races no exist at the time of the stories writing? Did the robot characters who looked human but were from a completely different world view connecting not exist? I don’t think additional diversity is as big a sign of the times as the source suggests. Anyways the phrase that sparked my question was “bending objective facts”. A cultural change in what his good or even acceptable story telling is a subjective opinion and not something that can be stretched as far as “objective fact”

peoplefromibiza 4y ago
> Did mixed races no exist at the time of the stories writing? Not really, Asimov was born in 100% white Russia and then moved to USA during the 1920s where segregation was still a thing. > Did the robot characters who looked human but were from a completely different world view connecting not exist? Of course there were different worlds with different cultures, rites, traditions, religions and even food (or martial arts), but their look is not taken into great account. Asimov was a biochemist after all, not an anthropologist. I agree that actualization of a work of fiction it is not bending objective facts, my impression though is that content platforms are more following than leading, they are giving the public what the public will consume, which is dull, it is like giving kids candies or cake because we already know they'll eat them. There is no real surprise, no Sam Raimi's The Evil Dead or Carpenter's The Thing/Assault on Precint 13/They live, no Peter Jackson's Bad Taste, everything is so canonical and completely unimaginative. There is no space left for provocative, out of the box, even offensive, creation (unless it is sexually defining for minorities, like a dildo, homosexual intercourse, etc. something that wouldn't even shock my 82 years old dad) In a way they are segmenting the market based on the idea they wanna project of themselves: - Netflix: social activists involved in identity politics, teenagers (with superpower or supernatural powers), binge watchers, kids and some old show to entertain their parents too (all of Star Trek for example, the only reason I still use Netflix) - Prime Video: crime aficionados, intelligent comedy (it better be British), superheroes with a twist, people like me who already pay for amazon prime and are not young anymore - Apple TV: fancy, grandiose, epic stories, that unfortunately lack in writing and results are mixed. For people who love a great cast in a show. - HBO: actual quality content, for people who love to pay for quality content.
- lovich 4y ago
  > Not really, Asimov was born in 100% white Russia and then moved to USA during the 1920s where segregation was still a thing. It was a facetious question. Of course mixed race people existed! There was no such thing as a 100% white Russia by any definition of the term in any era! It was an imperial state with explicit multiple ethnicities as far as the locals were concerned. Like Jesus Christ, Asimov himself was Jewish and then migrated to the multi ethnic United States when he was three! Do you honestly believe there were states with 100% pure ethnic polities at any point in history? Even supremacists states like the American South in the slave era had other ethnic groups as an underclass and frequently had children with them. Like I can’t even look at the rest of your comment when you’re claiming Russia was 100% white. I couldn’t handle it if you said it was 90% white. All of Siberia? Dagestan? Tatarstan? Chechnya? Edit:looked it up to make sure my Russian history knowledge hadn’t been made obsolete by new primary sources. Inorodtsy was the term in the Russian empire for the non Russian ethnic groups controlled by the empire. You seriously need to take a look through history if you think the acknowledgement of minorities existence is a modern interpretation of historical facts