4 ms·

Isn't this an opportunity for EU startups? By choosing to enforce the law on US companies that EU companies are already generally very compliant with, surely t

Isn't this an opportunity for EU startups? By choosing to enforce the law on US companies that EU companies are already generally very compliant with, surely the EU has levelled the playing field for EU companies?

YetAnotherNick 4y ago
So due to this legislations it is more costly/less profitable for a company to have a European customer compared to US customer. Things like GDPR/lawsuits/bad PR etc. doesn't come for free for companies. So if some startup has more ratio of European users it is at a disadvantage.
- herbst 4y ago
  GDPR is rarely enforced, we are still In a transition phase and many who start out choose to just ignore it to a degree. I don't see how it's more costly or less profitable. Judging by the amount of lawsuits per capita I think it's way more likely to get sued in the US than Europe. And guess what's more expensive or complicated for a European company?
AdriaanvRossum 4y ago
It is. Most startups in the EU have to use more and more businesses in the EU. The selection is little, so way more changes to succeed if your EU based and serve both markets. I run Simple Analytics [1], which is a privacy-first analytics business from the Netherlands. I see a lot of business from the EU just because we are from the EU as well. [1] https://simpleanalytics.com/?ref=hn https://simpleanalytics.com/?ref=hn
- hnbad 4y ago
  Frankly, as a EU company (based in Germany no less) I'm steering clear of any US SaaS whenever possible. Even if they operate in the EU they're usually a legal headache because privacy compliance is added as an afterthought and they'll often carelessly transfer data to US servers based on assumptions that should have been abandoned when Privacy Shield was torn down in the courts. Out of the big cloud providers only Azure feels even remotely safe to use (if only because of the privacy reputation of Google and Amazon).
  - BlueTemplar 4y ago
    Wait, why would Microsoft have a better reputation ? Because (NSA aside), they have been caught less often transferring private information and "stolen" company secrets to third parties ?
    - hnbad 4y ago
      Google is an advertising company that is literally built on non-consensual data harvesting. AWS is an outgrowth of Amazon, which is likewise massively invested in data mining (though mostly on Amazon itself). Microsoft's telemetry in end user products is known to tech savvy people but the company is mostly known for its operating system and office suite that most businesses already use. Additionally in Germany Microsoft used to offload its enterprise services to Deutsche Telekom (or T-Online I think) operating them for MS under the Microsoft brand, thus appearing even more trustworthy by effectively handing over control to a well-known German company. This changed but reputation sticks.
      - hedora 4y ago
        Microsoft is now double dipping (they charge for the product and also monetize telemetry). They own linked in, github, office, teams and windows, and are combining those surveillance streams. They continue to support the CLOUD act as a "first step": https://blogs.microsoft.com/on-the-issues/2018/04/03/the-cloud-act-is-an-important-step-forward-but-now-more-steps-need-to-follow/ https://blogs.microsoft.com/on-the-issues/2018/04/03/the-clo...
    - jimnotgym 4y ago
      Because their compliance is not an afterthought like the poster above said. You can't even assign an Office 365 licence to someone until you say what country they are in, so their data is kept in the right jurisdiction. I know someone will reply...blah blah no true scotsman...but compare that to most saas that doesnt even give the option
cm2012 4y ago
A little advantage for EU analytics startups, disadvantage for all other EU startups and SMBs who have less options for figuring out what users like about their website and offerings.
- hef19898 4y ago
  Assuming any of that actually helps to grow revenue, or that it is the only way to find out what your users want. Plus, GDPR isn't making tracking illegal in general, it is just heavily regulating it. If it was just properly enforced, the internet would be a much nicer place... Side note, I'm slowly getting tired of people ignoring regulations and compliance simply out of laziness.
jeroenhd 4y ago
I can already see the taglines: "ConsentCo, tracking that's legal in the EU, unlike Google Analytics"

YetAnotherNick 4y ago

So due to this legislations it is more costly/less profitable for a company to have a European customer compared to US customer. Things like GDPR/lawsuits/bad PR etc. doesn't come for free for companies. So if some startup has more ratio of European users it is at a disadvantage.

herbst 4y ago
GDPR is rarely enforced, we are still In a transition phase and many who start out choose to just ignore it to a degree. I don't see how it's more costly or less profitable. Judging by the amount of lawsuits per capita I think it's way more likely to get sued in the US than Europe. And guess what's more expensive or complicated for a European company?

AdriaanvRossum 4y ago

It is. Most startups in the EU have to use more and more businesses in the EU. The selection is little, so way more changes to succeed if your EU based and serve both markets. I run Simple Analytics [1], which is a privacy-first analytics business from the Netherlands. I see a lot of business from the EU just because we are from the EU as well. [1] https://simpleanalytics.com/?ref=hn https://simpleanalytics.com/?ref=hn

hnbad 4y ago
Frankly, as a EU company (based in Germany no less) I'm steering clear of any US SaaS whenever possible. Even if they operate in the EU they're usually a legal headache because privacy compliance is added as an afterthought and they'll often carelessly transfer data to US servers based on assumptions that should have been abandoned when Privacy Shield was torn down in the courts. Out of the big cloud providers only Azure feels even remotely safe to use (if only because of the privacy reputation of Google and Amazon).
- BlueTemplar 4y ago
  Wait, why would Microsoft have a better reputation ? Because (NSA aside), they have been caught less often transferring private information and "stolen" company secrets to third parties ?
  - hnbad 4y ago
    Google is an advertising company that is literally built on non-consensual data harvesting. AWS is an outgrowth of Amazon, which is likewise massively invested in data mining (though mostly on Amazon itself). Microsoft's telemetry in end user products is known to tech savvy people but the company is mostly known for its operating system and office suite that most businesses already use. Additionally in Germany Microsoft used to offload its enterprise services to Deutsche Telekom (or T-Online I think) operating them for MS under the Microsoft brand, thus appearing even more trustworthy by effectively handing over control to a well-known German company. This changed but reputation sticks.
    - hedora 4y ago
      Microsoft is now double dipping (they charge for the product and also monetize telemetry). They own linked in, github, office, teams and windows, and are combining those surveillance streams. They continue to support the CLOUD act as a "first step": https://blogs.microsoft.com/on-the-issues/2018/04/03/the-cloud-act-is-an-important-step-forward-but-now-more-steps-need-to-follow/ https://blogs.microsoft.com/on-the-issues/2018/04/03/the-clo...
  - jimnotgym 4y ago
    Because their compliance is not an afterthought like the poster above said. You can't even assign an Office 365 licence to someone until you say what country they are in, so their data is kept in the right jurisdiction. I know someone will reply...blah blah no true scotsman...but compare that to most saas that doesnt even give the option

cm2012 4y ago

A little advantage for EU analytics startups, disadvantage for all other EU startups and SMBs who have less options for figuring out what users like about their website and offerings.

hef19898 4y ago
Assuming any of that actually helps to grow revenue, or that it is the only way to find out what your users want. Plus, GDPR isn't making tracking illegal in general, it is just heavily regulating it. If it was just properly enforced, the internet would be a much nicer place... Side note, I'm slowly getting tired of people ignoring regulations and compliance simply out of laziness.

jeroenhd 4y ago

I can already see the taglines: "ConsentCo, tracking that's legal in the EU, unlike Google Analytics"