4 ms·

Going to be real interesting seeing all those Karens and Kens dealing with the non-whites packing concealed. If public safety has broken down (why else go abou

Going to be real interesting seeing all those Karens and Kens dealing with the non-whites packing concealed. If public safety has broken down (why else go about armed?), fair's fair.

FunnyBadger 4y ago
I've already been down to a local gun dealers - they are officially saying "no comment" because they can't predict how anything like CCW and gun purchases will change yet. But I have about $10K-$20K ready to spend when it opens up.
- chroma 4y ago
  What? This decision doesn't change what guns people are allowed to buy. You can buy guns today, gain experience with them, and get a concealed carry permit later.
  - _-david-_ 4y ago
    Many people want a more compact gun for conceal carrying. While they could have bought a more compact gun before, they likely would not have since they didn't have a use for it.
  - Throwawayaerlei 4y ago
    "This decision doesn't change what guns people are allowed to buy." As I understand New York state law prior to the most recent, very recent post-Uvalde, it does and very much so. Mere ownership of handguns was permit based, with permits often denied and revoked after the fact. When that new law goes into effect all types of guns will be under the same sorts of May Issue ownership restrictions like Massachusetts. It may also restrict the type of handguns you can get, and in any case magazine capacities are limited to 10 rounds, as if you can determine ahead of time how many assailants you may face, how well you'll be able to shoot them, and how many won't be in the half who aren't stopped by getting hit once. Then we get to NYC, obviously a focus of the state's crime issues: it's so restrictive that for the 8.8 million residents about 60,000 each are allowed to get permits to own handguns and long guns. And you aren't allowed to buy a handgun in another state. (Not without having to take custody of it at a FFL in your state.) At best you might be able to travel to a gun friendly state and rent one at a range, but what range would want to take the change of being a test case? OK, if you've got friends out of state who also happen to own a gun that fit you, that's still generally legal for supervised target shooting.
_-david-_ 4y ago
Gun control measures historically were used to prevent nonwhites from bearing arms. The pro-gun side is well aware of this and frequently uses this as proof that the Democratic Party is racist.
- FunnyBadger 4y ago
  History provides TONS of other reasons to believe that... :-)
- jleyank 4y ago
  Many aspects of the us parties flipped between parties in the early 60’s with the Southern Strategy and the breakdown of FDR’s northern/southern coalition. Arguably, the parties have reversed their positions from 1860.
  - _-david-_ 4y ago
    I think it is a bit more complicated than the Southern Strategy. Republicans didn't start winning the south until Reagan and lost a decent chunk of the South when Clinton won.
    - jleyank 4y ago
      You’re missing my point, as there was a colour flip in the us south. Blacks and whites flipped the parties that they had traditionally voted for. Republicans freed the slaves but their positions became rather different. Many workers shifted to republican for various reasons, reversing the rural vs city balance. Clinton might have done better in the south but obviously the south has been republican since then. Republicans today would be recognized as doughfaces from 1856. Radical republicans from the civil war would not have much overlap with their namesakes today.
      - _-david-_ 4y ago
        The person I was responding to was trying to say that progun people will support gun control if blacks get guns. I was just trying to say they won't and use it as an attack against gun control advocates. I don't think it is relevant if, when or on what issues parties flipped. The Democratic Party used to support gun control take prevent blacks from having guns. The current Democratic Party supports gun control. Their reasons may or may not have changed, but it is still used as an attack.
Throwawayaerlei 4y ago
That's already the case in 43 states of the Union, with 74% of the population. So the Karens and Kens in 7 states with a quarter of the population will just have to get with the program. "If public safety has broken down (why else go about armed?), fair's fair." You need to be more explicit in what you're insinuating in your last couple of words there. But you're also making a massive inversion mistake. going about armed is one way to avoid having public safety break down, "when seconds count, the police are minutes away."
- jleyank 4y ago
  No, I’m being blunt. If you have to live like the 1800’s in the Wild West, public safety has broken down. Or, at least the norms of the last 70+ years.
  - Throwawayaerlei 4y ago
    I'll take the norms of the grossly overstated "Wild West" over "the norms of the last 70+ years," the choice is not even close with massive increase in criminal violence in roughly those last 70 years and most recently in the last couple of years. Public safety has demonstrably has collapsed in both NYC and San Francisco, two cities I cite because we know their very small numbers of concealed carry permits (60,000 ownership ones, not all allowing concealed carry, and 1-3 any given year). And Hacker News features more than a few items about the latter.
    - jleyank 4y ago
      NYC claims reduction since 2000: https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/nypd/downloads/pdf/analysis_and_planning/historical-crime-data/seven-major-felony-offenses-2000-2021.pdf https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/nypd/downloads/pdf/analysis_and_... The us is what it is and the introduction of more weapons into society won’t make it better.
      - Throwawayaerlei 4y ago
        Not interested in something that picks a likely convenient starting point, but the waxing and waning of murders does not support your claim of what it says. "the introduction of more weapons into society won’t make it better." And you know this how? We are after all taking about a state where there's been severe suppression of urban civilian handgun ownership, let along carrying, for over a century.

Going to be real interesting seeing all those Karens and Kens dealing with the non-whites packing concealed. If public safety has broken down (why else go about armed?), fair's fair.

FunnyBadger 4y ago

I've already been down to a local gun dealers - they are officially saying "no comment" because they can't predict how anything like CCW and gun purchases will change yet. But I have about $10K-$20K ready to spend when it opens up.

chroma 4y ago
What? This decision doesn't change what guns people are allowed to buy. You can buy guns today, gain experience with them, and get a concealed carry permit later.
- _-david-_ 4y ago
  Many people want a more compact gun for conceal carrying. While they could have bought a more compact gun before, they likely would not have since they didn't have a use for it.
- Throwawayaerlei 4y ago
  "This decision doesn't change what guns people are allowed to buy." As I understand New York state law prior to the most recent, very recent post-Uvalde, it does and very much so. Mere ownership of handguns was permit based, with permits often denied and revoked after the fact. When that new law goes into effect all types of guns will be under the same sorts of May Issue ownership restrictions like Massachusetts. It may also restrict the type of handguns you can get, and in any case magazine capacities are limited to 10 rounds, as if you can determine ahead of time how many assailants you may face, how well you'll be able to shoot them, and how many won't be in the half who aren't stopped by getting hit once. Then we get to NYC, obviously a focus of the state's crime issues: it's so restrictive that for the 8.8 million residents about 60,000 each are allowed to get permits to own handguns and long guns. And you aren't allowed to buy a handgun in another state. (Not without having to take custody of it at a FFL in your state.) At best you might be able to travel to a gun friendly state and rent one at a range, but what range would want to take the change of being a test case? OK, if you've got friends out of state who also happen to own a gun that fit you, that's still generally legal for supervised target shooting.

_-david-_ 4y ago

Gun control measures historically were used to prevent nonwhites from bearing arms. The pro-gun side is well aware of this and frequently uses this as proof that the Democratic Party is racist.

FunnyBadger 4y ago
History provides TONS of other reasons to believe that... :-)
jleyank 4y ago
Many aspects of the us parties flipped between parties in the early 60’s with the Southern Strategy and the breakdown of FDR’s northern/southern coalition. Arguably, the parties have reversed their positions from 1860.
- _-david-_ 4y ago
  I think it is a bit more complicated than the Southern Strategy. Republicans didn't start winning the south until Reagan and lost a decent chunk of the South when Clinton won.
  - jleyank 4y ago
    You’re missing my point, as there was a colour flip in the us south. Blacks and whites flipped the parties that they had traditionally voted for. Republicans freed the slaves but their positions became rather different. Many workers shifted to republican for various reasons, reversing the rural vs city balance. Clinton might have done better in the south but obviously the south has been republican since then. Republicans today would be recognized as doughfaces from 1856. Radical republicans from the civil war would not have much overlap with their namesakes today.
    - _-david-_ 4y ago
      The person I was responding to was trying to say that progun people will support gun control if blacks get guns. I was just trying to say they won't and use it as an attack against gun control advocates. I don't think it is relevant if, when or on what issues parties flipped. The Democratic Party used to support gun control take prevent blacks from having guns. The current Democratic Party supports gun control. Their reasons may or may not have changed, but it is still used as an attack.

Throwawayaerlei 4y ago

That's already the case in 43 states of the Union, with 74% of the population. So the Karens and Kens in 7 states with a quarter of the population will just have to get with the program. "If public safety has broken down (why else go about armed?), fair's fair." You need to be more explicit in what you're insinuating in your last couple of words there. But you're also making a massive inversion mistake. going about armed is one way to avoid having public safety break down, "when seconds count, the police are minutes away."

jleyank 4y ago
No, I’m being blunt. If you have to live like the 1800’s in the Wild West, public safety has broken down. Or, at least the norms of the last 70+ years.
- Throwawayaerlei 4y ago
  I'll take the norms of the grossly overstated "Wild West" over "the norms of the last 70+ years," the choice is not even close with massive increase in criminal violence in roughly those last 70 years and most recently in the last couple of years. Public safety has demonstrably has collapsed in both NYC and San Francisco, two cities I cite because we know their very small numbers of concealed carry permits (60,000 ownership ones, not all allowing concealed carry, and 1-3 any given year). And Hacker News features more than a few items about the latter.
  - jleyank 4y ago
    NYC claims reduction since 2000: https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/nypd/downloads/pdf/analysis_and_planning/historical-crime-data/seven-major-felony-offenses-2000-2021.pdf https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/nypd/downloads/pdf/analysis_and_... The us is what it is and the introduction of more weapons into society won’t make it better.
    - Throwawayaerlei 4y ago
      Not interested in something that picks a likely convenient starting point, but the waxing and waning of murders does not support your claim of what it says. "the introduction of more weapons into society won’t make it better." And you know this how? We are after all taking about a state where there's been severe suppression of urban civilian handgun ownership, let along carrying, for over a century.