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This makes no sense at all. > "We want Canadians to find Canadian music. How best to do it? How will you do it? I don’t want to manipulate your algorithm. I wa

This makes no sense at all. > "We want Canadians to find Canadian music. How best to do it? How will you do it? I don’t want to manipulate your algorithm. I want you to manipulate it to produce a particular outcome. And then we will have hearings to decide what are the best ways and explore it." Why would you need to tweak an algorithm to nudge people toward a certain kind of (government approved) music? People simply... listen to the music they like! Pink Floyd and The Beatles sure didn't need one to become popular in their respective countries. > Scott’s comments confirm what Rodriguez has misleadingly denied and Bill C-11 critics have maintained for months: the bill’s discoverability requirements will obviously require algorithmic manipulation in order to prioritize Canadian content. Why do they need to do that in the first place? Here in America, people buy American content because they want to see it. Same in France. Why are Canadians not buying their own content?

fartcannon 4y ago
Anglophone Canadians and Americans come from the same places. So the cultural bridge is easy to cross and the American culture machine is prolific. If we do nothing, Canadians will be overwhelmed by the size of the American industry. If we ban it out right, that would be lame. So what's left? They chose the easy one: force some Canadian content.. It works, I guess. But it would be much cooler if there was more money to spend on developing more Canadian culture. We should have nationalised all our resources, but... Here we are. I always think about Avro Arrow, and Blackberry. We can't have anything nice because we are too weak. All that said, several of my favourite childhood bands are Canadian! The Tea Party, Our Lady Peace, Tragically Hip, I Mother Earth. Yay, the 90s.
- triceratops 4y ago
  > If we do nothing, Canadians will be overwhelmed by the size of the American industry I don't even follow popular music that closely, and yet I've found it astonishing how many popular music artists are Canadian. Drake, The Weeknd, Nickelback, Avril Lavigne, Celine Dion, Justin Bieber, Shania Twain are just the ones I can name off the top of my head. Canada's population is smaller than California so it seems like it's punching above its weight.
  - 908B64B197 4y ago
    > I don't even follow popular music that closely, and yet I've found it astonishing how many popular music artists are Canadian. Drake, The Weeknd, Nickelback, Avril Lavigne, Celine Dion, Justin Bieber, Shania Twain are just the ones I can name off the top of my head. Canada's population is smaller than California so it seems like it's punching above its weight. I don't. They have special laws where broadcasters (radio, tv) have to air a certain amount of government approved programming. So no matter what sells or what people want to hear, the government will revoke their license if they don't promote these whitelisted artists. A show about rap/hip-hop basically has to have Drake or Bieber to be legal.
    - BeefWellington 4y ago
      > a certain amount of government approved programming Here "government approved" means "Canadian Artists" rather than any government person rubber stamping a request to play a particular set list.
    - triceratops 4y ago
      That's my point. They only have guaranteed air time in Canada but they're world-famous artists.
      - 908B64B197 4y ago
        I would honestly support other western countries (especially with free trade agreements in place) if they decided to de-prioritize artist that are getting an "algorithmic boost" abroad, since it gives them an unfair advantage on the domestic market.
  - _spduchamp 4y ago
    It might be the case that you can recognise those Canadian artists because of the CanCon system that made them. Yes, Canadians do punch above our weight, by using government policies and resources to do so. Government investment in cultural industries is a pretty big thing in Canada.
- 908B64B197 4y ago
  > on developing more Canadian culture. You can't really artificially grow a culture. If people want it, they'll seek it and pay for it. > I always think about Avro Arrow, and Blackberry. We can't have anything nice because we are too weak. The Arrow was a plane without a purpose (chasing after supersonic bombers when everyone had moved to ICBMs?). BlackBerry's failure was internal. They failed to innovate and keep their head start despite years of market dominance. By the time they rollout the Storm at the same time as the iPhone 3G it was clear BlackBerry was at least two years behind Apple, if not more. Despite being hugely profitable they could simply not attract talent in the same way Apple could (and were not competitive with comp at all). Going from BlackBerry to Apple was seen as a great career move, the reverse almost unheard of.
  - fartcannon 4y ago
    I'm saying the Canadian artists that could be, are not, because they can't afford to try. No one can seek and pay for that which doesn't exist. Getting worse too with cost of housing going far beyond what an unknown artist might be able to generate. I saw a documentary that suggested the Avro was sold out by Diefenbaker. Funding things that are unprofitable to create sectors that then bare fruit is something other countries do that Canada fails to do quite a lot. Conviently, for Americas aviation and budding space industry, suddenly 1400 top shelf aviation engineers needed jobs. Conspiracy! :) Apples overwhelming cultural influence is precisely why the gov forces Canadian content (although not for business, though maybe they should). Apple releases some hot trash with great marketing and bam, BB is toast. I still want a blackberry bold. The one with the soft leather back.
    - 908B64B197 4y ago
      > Apple releases some hot trash with great marketing and bam, BB is toast. Was it really "just marketing?" Apple had multi-touch and the App Store.
      - fartcannon 4y ago
        No app store at launch! They were gonna use web apps or something vague. Still ate BB's lunch. Nokia, too. Best marketing in the industry, if you ask me.
jollybean 4y ago
This is a bit glib, but that's understandable. It's not a truly 'free market' for anything, and content is no exception. 'Free Market' idealism overwhelmingly favours 'large open economies' because they'll basically gobble up smaller open economies next to them. Literally the only large industries that exist in open economies next to much larger open economies are those that are protected: Banking, Telecoms etc.. If laws were changed such that US companies could buy Canadian Telcos - then even if Canadian Telcos were way more efficient (they are not, but supposed they were), then US giants would eat the Canadian Telcos instantly. The deals would be signed literally the day the law passed. Sometimes local cultural resilience is enough, but it's not that common. In Italy, they don't go to Starbucks or have a lot of America food, because theirs is just better in every way. But in Tunisia, almost everything that Tunisians do is quickly getting replaced by Western products. It's weirdly easy to convince young minds in the developing world that 'all their stuff is stupid' next to Coke, KFC, McDonald's, Nike. It's almost shocking to see the inter generational divide in these places, with elderly people being of 'some culture' where the kids are almost 100% cheap copies of bad Western brands. Coca Cola has immense money and power to influence, lobby, market. There are a few specific Tunisians teas that are just 'local products' that don't have an industry cabal behind them. Eventually, they will be replaced by Coke. In Canada specifically what I have noticed is that multi-generational Canadians have some semblance of what Canadian culture is, they'll know Neil Young etc. but a lot of migrant kids, they don't have much of a basis. They are far more likely to buy into the most recent American pop culture trends aka Kardashians. Because Canada has high levels of migration, that becomes a unique problem. Distribution and creation of most content is hugely industrialized, people are not 'famous' because they write a good song, my god no - it's an industry. Getting on the talk shows, published articles, etc. all of that is a business. There are just so many factors that contribute to content and distribution they are hard to enumerate and they are mostly industrial, this idea of 'free choice' is barely applicable. I actually fully support CANCON rules for the same reason they have existed in the past. Not for most industries, but anything cultural, yes. And of course as long as people can actively chose to get the content they want as well.
- 908B64B197 4y ago
  > In Italy, they don't go to Starbucks or have a lot of America food, because theirs is just better in every way. > But in Tunisia, almost everything that Tunisians do is quickly getting replaced by Western products. Why are young Tunisians not interested in their culture? Is it the same in Canada?

fartcannon 4y ago

Anglophone Canadians and Americans come from the same places. So the cultural bridge is easy to cross and the American culture machine is prolific. If we do nothing, Canadians will be overwhelmed by the size of the American industry. If we ban it out right, that would be lame. So what's left? They chose the easy one: force some Canadian content.. It works, I guess. But it would be much cooler if there was more money to spend on developing more Canadian culture. We should have nationalised all our resources, but... Here we are. I always think about Avro Arrow, and Blackberry. We can't have anything nice because we are too weak. All that said, several of my favourite childhood bands are Canadian! The Tea Party, Our Lady Peace, Tragically Hip, I Mother Earth. Yay, the 90s.

triceratops 4y ago
> If we do nothing, Canadians will be overwhelmed by the size of the American industry I don't even follow popular music that closely, and yet I've found it astonishing how many popular music artists are Canadian. Drake, The Weeknd, Nickelback, Avril Lavigne, Celine Dion, Justin Bieber, Shania Twain are just the ones I can name off the top of my head. Canada's population is smaller than California so it seems like it's punching above its weight.
- 908B64B197 4y ago
  > I don't even follow popular music that closely, and yet I've found it astonishing how many popular music artists are Canadian. Drake, The Weeknd, Nickelback, Avril Lavigne, Celine Dion, Justin Bieber, Shania Twain are just the ones I can name off the top of my head. Canada's population is smaller than California so it seems like it's punching above its weight. I don't. They have special laws where broadcasters (radio, tv) have to air a certain amount of government approved programming. So no matter what sells or what people want to hear, the government will revoke their license if they don't promote these whitelisted artists. A show about rap/hip-hop basically has to have Drake or Bieber to be legal.
  - BeefWellington 4y ago
    > a certain amount of government approved programming Here "government approved" means "Canadian Artists" rather than any government person rubber stamping a request to play a particular set list.
  - triceratops 4y ago
    That's my point. They only have guaranteed air time in Canada but they're world-famous artists.
    - 908B64B197 4y ago
      I would honestly support other western countries (especially with free trade agreements in place) if they decided to de-prioritize artist that are getting an "algorithmic boost" abroad, since it gives them an unfair advantage on the domestic market.
- _spduchamp 4y ago
  It might be the case that you can recognise those Canadian artists because of the CanCon system that made them. Yes, Canadians do punch above our weight, by using government policies and resources to do so. Government investment in cultural industries is a pretty big thing in Canada.
908B64B197 4y ago
> on developing more Canadian culture. You can't really artificially grow a culture. If people want it, they'll seek it and pay for it. > I always think about Avro Arrow, and Blackberry. We can't have anything nice because we are too weak. The Arrow was a plane without a purpose (chasing after supersonic bombers when everyone had moved to ICBMs?). BlackBerry's failure was internal. They failed to innovate and keep their head start despite years of market dominance. By the time they rollout the Storm at the same time as the iPhone 3G it was clear BlackBerry was at least two years behind Apple, if not more. Despite being hugely profitable they could simply not attract talent in the same way Apple could (and were not competitive with comp at all). Going from BlackBerry to Apple was seen as a great career move, the reverse almost unheard of.
- fartcannon 4y ago
  I'm saying the Canadian artists that could be, are not, because they can't afford to try. No one can seek and pay for that which doesn't exist. Getting worse too with cost of housing going far beyond what an unknown artist might be able to generate. I saw a documentary that suggested the Avro was sold out by Diefenbaker. Funding things that are unprofitable to create sectors that then bare fruit is something other countries do that Canada fails to do quite a lot. Conviently, for Americas aviation and budding space industry, suddenly 1400 top shelf aviation engineers needed jobs. Conspiracy! :) Apples overwhelming cultural influence is precisely why the gov forces Canadian content (although not for business, though maybe they should). Apple releases some hot trash with great marketing and bam, BB is toast. I still want a blackberry bold. The one with the soft leather back.
  - 908B64B197 4y ago
    > Apple releases some hot trash with great marketing and bam, BB is toast. Was it really "just marketing?" Apple had multi-touch and the App Store.
    - fartcannon 4y ago
      No app store at launch! They were gonna use web apps or something vague. Still ate BB's lunch. Nokia, too. Best marketing in the industry, if you ask me.

jollybean 4y ago

This is a bit glib, but that's understandable. It's not a truly 'free market' for anything, and content is no exception. 'Free Market' idealism overwhelmingly favours 'large open economies' because they'll basically gobble up smaller open economies next to them. Literally the only large industries that exist in open economies next to much larger open economies are those that are protected: Banking, Telecoms etc.. If laws were changed such that US companies could buy Canadian Telcos - then even if Canadian Telcos were way more efficient (they are not, but supposed they were), then US giants would eat the Canadian Telcos instantly. The deals would be signed literally the day the law passed. Sometimes local cultural resilience is enough, but it's not that common. In Italy, they don't go to Starbucks or have a lot of America food, because theirs is just better in every way. But in Tunisia, almost everything that Tunisians do is quickly getting replaced by Western products. It's weirdly easy to convince young minds in the developing world that 'all their stuff is stupid' next to Coke, KFC, McDonald's, Nike. It's almost shocking to see the inter generational divide in these places, with elderly people being of 'some culture' where the kids are almost 100% cheap copies of bad Western brands. Coca Cola has immense money and power to influence, lobby, market. There are a few specific Tunisians teas that are just 'local products' that don't have an industry cabal behind them. Eventually, they will be replaced by Coke. In Canada specifically what I have noticed is that multi-generational Canadians have some semblance of what Canadian culture is, they'll know Neil Young etc. but a lot of migrant kids, they don't have much of a basis. They are far more likely to buy into the most recent American pop culture trends aka Kardashians. Because Canada has high levels of migration, that becomes a unique problem. Distribution and creation of most content is hugely industrialized, people are not 'famous' because they write a good song, my god no - it's an industry. Getting on the talk shows, published articles, etc. all of that is a business. There are just so many factors that contribute to content and distribution they are hard to enumerate and they are mostly industrial, this idea of 'free choice' is barely applicable. I actually fully support CANCON rules for the same reason they have existed in the past. Not for most industries, but anything cultural, yes. And of course as long as people can actively chose to get the content they want as well.

908B64B197 4y ago
> In Italy, they don't go to Starbucks or have a lot of America food, because theirs is just better in every way. > But in Tunisia, almost everything that Tunisians do is quickly getting replaced by Western products. Why are young Tunisians not interested in their culture? Is it the same in Canada?