3 ms·

The "white collar, grew up in a good school district" class that most of HN is from has a massive blind spot for what "starting a business" looks like at the lo

The "white collar, grew up in a good school district" class that most of HN is from has a massive blind spot for what "starting a business" looks like at the low end. There all sorts of "cash only side gig" type activities you can do that provide enough income to pay for a shitty apartment, food, basic transportation, etc if you do them 40+hr/wk. The first few months are hard but you get better, build your network, get regular customers, etc and things stabilize. If you're starting with some marketable skill or specialized knowledge it's even faster.

lovich 4y ago
> The "white collar, grew up in a good school district" class that most of HN is from has a massive blind spot for what "starting a business" looks like at the low end. Not all of us stayed in our school district during the day. I think the real missing ingredient people might not realize is here is crime. Small “businesses” like these or sole proprietorships routinely just skip legal requirements on things like paying taxes, not writing off things that aren’t legal to write off, permits, etc. When you cut out all that you can eke out a living doing the spot jobs. I would also quibble with the term “stabilize” as “stable as a single worker in a self owned business” != “stable as a worker in a multi person company”
- throwaway0a5e 4y ago
  >I would also quibble with the term “stabilize” as “stable as a single worker in a self owned business” != “stable as a worker in a multi person company” More stable than those kinds of people would be if they got a McJob somewhere that treated them like just another disposable body.
  - lovich 4y ago
    I don’t know that I’m convinced of that. They seem to be about the same economic status. The small business owners I’m referencing are weed dealers, car detailers, handyman, other unlicensed trades, etc compared to low level retail like McDonalds. The handymen seem to do the best out of the group but they are also very feast and famine whereas the retail workers may not get all the hours they want but it is much more consistent. Wage theft is also a threat in retail but the examples I’ve seen and experienced were a few hours here and there or a manager reclassifying your OT as not OT. The handymen routinely deal with partial or complete non payment by customers who basically dare them to try and get their money in court. I hadn’t considered the increase in retail wages over the past year either. The handymen I know have increased prices significantly but most of that has been sunk into parts and supplies that had a similar massive increase.
MisterBastahrd 4y ago
I think you need to re-read what you just wrote, because your opening line doesn't jive with what follows. You're describing what a "white collar, grew up in a good school district" class person would think is poor. That's not poor. That's lower-middle class. Poor is when you have no savings and are forced to clean out your kitchen garbage can in the tub because you can't afford to buy more can liners before payday because you don't want to pay interest on a payday loan... and that's lived experience after having worked and socialized with people who were generationally poor. When you're poor, you don't just get to quit your job to start a business. Your business must necessarily function around the job that you have, which makes it exceedingly more difficult when you are doing shift work, as most poor people do. The four biggest barriers to low-end gig jobs are still availability, startup costs, time, and cashflow. Customers expect you to be available when they need you. You aren't doing Uber in a beater. Any money you're spending on your business is money that you aren't spending on savings or necessary household expenses. And poor people are far more likely to fall prey to scams out of sheer desperation. That's not even talking about the regulatory hurdles that people with businesses need to jump. As a customer, you'd be a fool to allow someone onto your property to do anything without their own business insurance.

lovich 4y ago

> The "white collar, grew up in a good school district" class that most of HN is from has a massive blind spot for what "starting a business" looks like at the low end. Not all of us stayed in our school district during the day. I think the real missing ingredient people might not realize is here is crime. Small “businesses” like these or sole proprietorships routinely just skip legal requirements on things like paying taxes, not writing off things that aren’t legal to write off, permits, etc. When you cut out all that you can eke out a living doing the spot jobs. I would also quibble with the term “stabilize” as “stable as a single worker in a self owned business” != “stable as a worker in a multi person company”

throwaway0a5e 4y ago
>I would also quibble with the term “stabilize” as “stable as a single worker in a self owned business” != “stable as a worker in a multi person company” More stable than those kinds of people would be if they got a McJob somewhere that treated them like just another disposable body.
- lovich 4y ago
  I don’t know that I’m convinced of that. They seem to be about the same economic status. The small business owners I’m referencing are weed dealers, car detailers, handyman, other unlicensed trades, etc compared to low level retail like McDonalds. The handymen seem to do the best out of the group but they are also very feast and famine whereas the retail workers may not get all the hours they want but it is much more consistent. Wage theft is also a threat in retail but the examples I’ve seen and experienced were a few hours here and there or a manager reclassifying your OT as not OT. The handymen routinely deal with partial or complete non payment by customers who basically dare them to try and get their money in court. I hadn’t considered the increase in retail wages over the past year either. The handymen I know have increased prices significantly but most of that has been sunk into parts and supplies that had a similar massive increase.

MisterBastahrd 4y ago

I think you need to re-read what you just wrote, because your opening line doesn't jive with what follows. You're describing what a "white collar, grew up in a good school district" class person would think is poor. That's not poor. That's lower-middle class. Poor is when you have no savings and are forced to clean out your kitchen garbage can in the tub because you can't afford to buy more can liners before payday because you don't want to pay interest on a payday loan... and that's lived experience after having worked and socialized with people who were generationally poor. When you're poor, you don't just get to quit your job to start a business. Your business must necessarily function around the job that you have, which makes it exceedingly more difficult when you are doing shift work, as most poor people do. The four biggest barriers to low-end gig jobs are still availability, startup costs, time, and cashflow. Customers expect you to be available when they need you. You aren't doing Uber in a beater. Any money you're spending on your business is money that you aren't spending on savings or necessary household expenses. And poor people are far more likely to fall prey to scams out of sheer desperation. That's not even talking about the regulatory hurdles that people with businesses need to jump. As a customer, you'd be a fool to allow someone onto your property to do anything without their own business insurance.