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The belief that the opposite is true is so entrenched that business owners in Manhattan vehemently opposed banning cars on 14th St for fear that it would devast

The belief that the opposite is true is so entrenched that business owners in Manhattan vehemently opposed banning cars on 14th St for fear that it would devastate their businesses. Of course, nothing of the sort happened. The cars were banned and nothing happened except that the street got a lot quieter and safer.

colpabar 4y ago
This attitude is common in my city as well. So many people seem to think that if you cannot park directly in front of a business then that business will fail.
- bombcar 4y ago
  The list of businesses directly affected by proximity to traffic consists of: 1. Gas stations Everything else does better when the storefront is nearer the road, assuming all things else are equal (ie., rear parking vs front parking). However, to do this right you often need two entrances for the business, which can complicate things.
- datavirtue 4y ago
  Typical seat-of-the-pants, non-data-driven business thinking. Knee jerk pablum.
- mcv 4y ago
  Well, maybe if I can't park my bike directly in front of it. But there's never enough space for all the cars of all the customers; car drivers are used to having to walk the last bit.
- skrbjc 4y ago
  Considering the number of food-delivery cars constantly double parked along the restaurant-dense streets of my area, the restaurants would probably lose a fair bit of business if cars couldn't access them.
  - pgodzin 4y ago
    why can't all those trips be done by e-bike?
NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
Based on feedback from local businesses in early 2020 (pre-Covid), ~40% of food and beverage businesses reported that business had become either "worse" or "much worse" since the changes. Reports from "dry retail" businesses are slightly better and service businesses slightly worse. This is compared with <20% of businesses that reported any kind of improvement in business conditions. https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5bc63eb90b77bd20c50c516c/t/5ec421b14abb5b1fa619df9e/1589912002654/14+Street+Report+2+Winter+2020.pdf https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5bc63eb90b77bd20c50c5... (page 21) Traffic also increased substantially on some of the nearby streets, as expected. A reasonable discussion on the impact of these kinds of changes can be had; but not if we're going to make up statements about what the impact of the changes was.
- sandworm101 4y ago
  That depends on one's perspective. Certainly the businesses seem to have suffered, but who in NYC really cares about street-level businesses? NYC is all about high-end residential real estate. Emptying that street of makes all those apartments slightly more desirable, slightly more expensive. That in turn has a net benefit to the city's bottom line. And I would not be surprised if there were more people employed in constructing new high-end apartment buildings that there are working street-level retail. There is an old saying that nobody who "works" in NYC can afford to live in NYC. You need passive family/investment income to support living there. The new saying might be that nobody who lives in new your can afford to live there. It is a place for people rich enough to maintain residences in multiple cities, a place for luxury crashpads servicing weekend benders. Nobody rich enough to owns a NYC apartment actually spends much time in NYC.
  - yieldcrv 4y ago
    sort of kind of, I think you arbitrarily mix renting with owning and that changes a lot I've lived in all of the expensive cities in the US, never interested in saving for a downpayment so its a much larger budget that worked okay with whatever job I was doing
- dionidium 4y ago

colpabar 4y ago

This attitude is common in my city as well. So many people seem to think that if you cannot park directly in front of a business then that business will fail.

bombcar 4y ago
The list of businesses directly affected by proximity to traffic consists of: 1. Gas stations Everything else does better when the storefront is nearer the road, assuming all things else are equal (ie., rear parking vs front parking). However, to do this right you often need two entrances for the business, which can complicate things.
datavirtue 4y ago
Typical seat-of-the-pants, non-data-driven business thinking. Knee jerk pablum.
mcv 4y ago
Well, maybe if I can't park my bike directly in front of it. But there's never enough space for all the cars of all the customers; car drivers are used to having to walk the last bit.
skrbjc 4y ago
Considering the number of food-delivery cars constantly double parked along the restaurant-dense streets of my area, the restaurants would probably lose a fair bit of business if cars couldn't access them.
- pgodzin 4y ago
  why can't all those trips be done by e-bike?

NovemberWhiskey 4y ago

Based on feedback from local businesses in early 2020 (pre-Covid), ~40% of food and beverage businesses reported that business had become either "worse" or "much worse" since the changes. Reports from "dry retail" businesses are slightly better and service businesses slightly worse. This is compared with <20% of businesses that reported any kind of improvement in business conditions. https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5bc63eb90b77bd20c50c516c/t/5ec421b14abb5b1fa619df9e/1589912002654/14+Street+Report+2+Winter+2020.pdf https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5bc63eb90b77bd20c50c5... (page 21) Traffic also increased substantially on some of the nearby streets, as expected. A reasonable discussion on the impact of these kinds of changes can be had; but not if we're going to make up statements about what the impact of the changes was.

sandworm101 4y ago
That depends on one's perspective. Certainly the businesses seem to have suffered, but who in NYC really cares about street-level businesses? NYC is all about high-end residential real estate. Emptying that street of makes all those apartments slightly more desirable, slightly more expensive. That in turn has a net benefit to the city's bottom line. And I would not be surprised if there were more people employed in constructing new high-end apartment buildings that there are working street-level retail. There is an old saying that nobody who "works" in NYC can afford to live in NYC. You need passive family/investment income to support living there. The new saying might be that nobody who lives in new your can afford to live there. It is a place for people rich enough to maintain residences in multiple cities, a place for luxury crashpads servicing weekend benders. Nobody rich enough to owns a NYC apartment actually spends much time in NYC.
- yieldcrv 4y ago
  sort of kind of, I think you arbitrarily mix renting with owning and that changes a lot I've lived in all of the expensive cities in the US, never interested in saving for a downpayment so its a much larger budget that worked okay with whatever job I was doing
dionidium 4y ago