4 ms·

Skips this book but do read The Last Ringbearer, a well-written 1999 fantasy fan-fiction book: "Eskov bases his novel on the premise that the Tolkien acco

Skips this book but do read The Last Ringbearer, a well-written 1999 fantasy fan-fiction book: "Eskov bases his novel on the premise that the Tolkien account is a "history written by the victors". Eskov's version of the story describes Mordor as a peaceful constitutional monarchy on the verge of an industrial revolution, that poses a threat to the war-mongering and imperialistic faction represented by Gandalf (whose attitude has been described by Saruman as "crafting the Final Solution to the Mordorian problem") and the racist elves." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Ringbearer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Ringbearer

shrubble 4y ago
It may well be a well written book, and I will check it out, but it obviously is also written by a guy who is still butt-hurt by the fall of the USSR...
- darthrupert 4y ago
  The premise is much more interesting than the quality of writing. It was rather heavy to read. Tolkien's writing is on a completely different level.
- tut-urut-utut 4y ago
  The book stands on its feet. Why would private butt-hurtedness (is that even a word?) of an author matter? Wasn't Tolkien also butt-hurt by the decline of the British Empire? At least both authors have something in common. I still find The Last Ringbearer more optimistic than LotR, where even the victory against the biggest evil ever seems just like an ephemeral moment of partial restoration in a long period of inevitable decline of the human race. The characters in this book are alive, while in LotR there's much more character in mountains than in humans.
  - xdennis 4y ago
    > Wasn't Tolkien also butt-hurt by the decline of the British Empire? In typical Russian apologist style (as evident by your comments), you resort to whataboutism, even without actually checking your accusations. Tolkien was conservative, but he was an anti-imperialist. "I love England not Great Britain and certainly not the British Commonwealth" – Letter 53 – December 1943 "I know nothing about British or American imperialism in the Far East that does not fill me with regret and disgust.” – Letter 100 – May 1945 https://phuulishfellow.wordpress.com/2017/04/12/tolkien-and-empire/ https://phuulishfellow.wordpress.com/2017/04/12/tolkien-and-...
    - tut-urut-utut 4y ago
      > In typical Russian apologist style (as evident by your comments), I hope you enjoyed reading my other comments, though I don't see how my expressed view on other topics have any relevance to the comment you are replying to. > you resort to whataboutism, Hey, it was not me who brought up author's private view on politics and past. And once it was there, I just pointed out that both authors privately share a kind of longing for the glorious past, which is even more evident in LotR and Hobbit than in The Last Ringbearer. > even without actually checking your accusations. I didn't accuse anyone of doing anything. I just expressed the prevalent sentiment of his books, and I think what he wrote there is more relevant than what he said in interview or private letters.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
BMc2020 4y ago
I found the pdf about 10 years ago after hearing about it, and really enjoyed it. It's nothing in tone or style like Tolkein, so it won't ruin your memories of the LOR books. Only about the first two chapters overlap with the end of the Tolkein books. It's basically a story told from the point of view of an orc, so naturally the elves and the wizards are the bad guys.
- CoastalCoder 4y ago
  > It's basically a story told from the point of view of an orc, so naturally the elves and the wizards are the bad guys. Actually, I wonder if that "naturally" part really follows. Is it really true that every human who does evil thinks he's doing good? Even if so, should we expect orcs to be wired that same way?
  - Cthulhu_ 4y ago
    > Is it really true that every human who does evil thinks he's doing good? Either they do and truly believe in their self-righteousness, or they... simply don't care. I think this last category is very prevalent everywhere. I don't believe that e.g. a manager who exploits and sacks their staff actually thinks they're doing the right thing, but that they simply don't care about their staff. They get rewarded for saving money, too, so they care more about personal gains than that of those they preside over.
AdamH12113 4y ago
The Onion did a series of transcripts of "unused audio commentary" for the Lord of the Rings DVDs narrated by Howard Zinn and Noam Chomsky. They sounds similar to what you describe, and are a great parody of both the story and the narrators: https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/unused-audio-commentary-by-howard-zinn-and-noam-chomsky-recorded-summer-2002-for-the-fellowship-of-the-ring-platinum-series-extended-edition-dvd-part-one https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/unused-audio-commentary-... https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/unused-audio-commentary-by-howard-zinn-amp-noam-chomsky-recorded-summer-2002-for-the-fellowship-of-the-ring-platinum-series-extended-edition-dvd-part-two https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/unused-audio-commentary-... https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/part-one https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/part-one https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/part-two https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/part-two https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/part-three https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/part-three https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/part-four https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/part-four
- throw_away 4y ago
  McSweeney's, not The Onion
fractallyte 4y ago
This is intriguing, especially in light of the war in Ukraine - where the Russian invaders are being referred to as 'orcs'. And it's happening in reverse too, with Ukrainians being labeled as 'elves': https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-61518209?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=628a563dfc2fb576dc00bc69%26Why%20are%20Ukrainians%20calling%20Russians%20%E2%80%98orcs%E2%80%99%3F%262022-05-22T16%3A27%3A53.345Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:9ae0f376-5bd4-4702-8a18-12c7aa562615&pinned_post_asset_id=628a563dfc2fb576dc00bc69&pinned_post_type=share https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-61518209?ns_mchan... There's even a map! https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1500635045735895042 https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1500635045735895042
- fallingknife 4y ago
  > As for the Russians: they've been labelling Ukrainians “elves” - another Tolkien allusion - in the belief that those fictional beings embody weakness Looks like somebody didn't do the reading. Also FYI you can remove everything in the URL starting with the "?" and it will point to the same place.
  - fractallyte 4y ago
    Tried that, doesn't work with BBC's 'Live Reporting' feed.

shrubble 4y ago

It may well be a well written book, and I will check it out, but it obviously is also written by a guy who is still butt-hurt by the fall of the USSR...

darthrupert 4y ago
The premise is much more interesting than the quality of writing. It was rather heavy to read. Tolkien's writing is on a completely different level.
tut-urut-utut 4y ago
The book stands on its feet. Why would private butt-hurtedness (is that even a word?) of an author matter? Wasn't Tolkien also butt-hurt by the decline of the British Empire? At least both authors have something in common. I still find The Last Ringbearer more optimistic than LotR, where even the victory against the biggest evil ever seems just like an ephemeral moment of partial restoration in a long period of inevitable decline of the human race. The characters in this book are alive, while in LotR there's much more character in mountains than in humans.
- xdennis 4y ago
  > Wasn't Tolkien also butt-hurt by the decline of the British Empire? In typical Russian apologist style (as evident by your comments), you resort to whataboutism, even without actually checking your accusations. Tolkien was conservative, but he was an anti-imperialist. "I love England not Great Britain and certainly not the British Commonwealth" – Letter 53 – December 1943 "I know nothing about British or American imperialism in the Far East that does not fill me with regret and disgust.” – Letter 100 – May 1945 https://phuulishfellow.wordpress.com/2017/04/12/tolkien-and-empire/ https://phuulishfellow.wordpress.com/2017/04/12/tolkien-and-...
  - tut-urut-utut 4y ago
    > In typical Russian apologist style (as evident by your comments), I hope you enjoyed reading my other comments, though I don't see how my expressed view on other topics have any relevance to the comment you are replying to. > you resort to whataboutism, Hey, it was not me who brought up author's private view on politics and past. And once it was there, I just pointed out that both authors privately share a kind of longing for the glorious past, which is even more evident in LotR and Hobbit than in The Last Ringbearer. > even without actually checking your accusations. I didn't accuse anyone of doing anything. I just expressed the prevalent sentiment of his books, and I think what he wrote there is more relevant than what he said in interview or private letters.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

BMc2020 4y ago

I found the pdf about 10 years ago after hearing about it, and really enjoyed it. It's nothing in tone or style like Tolkein, so it won't ruin your memories of the LOR books. Only about the first two chapters overlap with the end of the Tolkein books. It's basically a story told from the point of view of an orc, so naturally the elves and the wizards are the bad guys.

CoastalCoder 4y ago
> It's basically a story told from the point of view of an orc, so naturally the elves and the wizards are the bad guys. Actually, I wonder if that "naturally" part really follows. Is it really true that every human who does evil thinks he's doing good? Even if so, should we expect orcs to be wired that same way?
- Cthulhu_ 4y ago
  > Is it really true that every human who does evil thinks he's doing good? Either they do and truly believe in their self-righteousness, or they... simply don't care. I think this last category is very prevalent everywhere. I don't believe that e.g. a manager who exploits and sacks their staff actually thinks they're doing the right thing, but that they simply don't care about their staff. They get rewarded for saving money, too, so they care more about personal gains than that of those they preside over.

AdamH12113 4y ago

The Onion did a series of transcripts of "unused audio commentary" for the Lord of the Rings DVDs narrated by Howard Zinn and Noam Chomsky. They sounds similar to what you describe, and are a great parody of both the story and the narrators: https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/unused-audio-commentary-by-howard-zinn-and-noam-chomsky-recorded-summer-2002-for-the-fellowship-of-the-ring-platinum-series-extended-edition-dvd-part-one https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/unused-audio-commentary-... https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/unused-audio-commentary-by-howard-zinn-amp-noam-chomsky-recorded-summer-2002-for-the-fellowship-of-the-ring-platinum-series-extended-edition-dvd-part-two https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/unused-audio-commentary-... https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/part-one https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/part-one https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/part-two https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/part-two https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/part-three https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/part-three https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/part-four https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/part-four

throw_away 4y ago
McSweeney's, not The Onion

fractallyte 4y ago

This is intriguing, especially in light of the war in Ukraine - where the Russian invaders are being referred to as 'orcs'. And it's happening in reverse too, with Ukrainians being labeled as 'elves': https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-61518209?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=628a563dfc2fb576dc00bc69%26Why%20are%20Ukrainians%20calling%20Russians%20%E2%80%98orcs%E2%80%99%3F%262022-05-22T16%3A27%3A53.345Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:9ae0f376-5bd4-4702-8a18-12c7aa562615&pinned_post_asset_id=628a563dfc2fb576dc00bc69&pinned_post_type=share https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-61518209?ns_mchan... There's even a map! https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1500635045735895042 https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1500635045735895042

fallingknife 4y ago
> As for the Russians: they've been labelling Ukrainians “elves” - another Tolkien allusion - in the belief that those fictional beings embody weakness Looks like somebody didn't do the reading. Also FYI you can remove everything in the URL starting with the "?" and it will point to the same place.
- fractallyte 4y ago
  Tried that, doesn't work with BBC's 'Live Reporting' feed.