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I grow bored with trying to convince other people to agree with me and am much more interested in how I can change my own mind to agree with others. True braver

I grow bored with trying to convince other people to agree with me and am much more interested in how I can change my own mind to agree with others. True bravery is saying “I will change my mind about something important today.”

curiousllama 4y ago
I got pretty good at this - it's not all it's cracked up to be. If you're really open minded & empirical, every time you talk to a specialist or hobbyist, you'd change your mind - simply because they have more data available. You're not at the mercy of the best idea, just the best argument; you're simply outsourcing your opinions. It's less "thoughtful" and more "spineless"
- wussboy 4y ago
  Your comment strikes at the core of the matter. Changing your mind is perceived as being spineless, or lacking in some essential moral component. It's unfortunate. Think of the millions who have died needlessly in large and small ways because humans were unable to admit the folly of their ways, even if they could clearly see it. I stand by my original comment. True bravery is being willing to change your mind about important things.
  - curiousllama 4y ago
    > I stand by my original comment Not unexpected. After all, I did try to change your mind by saying "you should not change your mind."
    - guerrilla 4y ago
      I feel like this little interaction should be written into a play. It'd fit perfectly in Waiting for Godot.
    - wussboy 4y ago
      I feel like you’re implying “I am willing to change my mind” is equivalent to “I believe whatever the last thing I heard was”. But surely this is not so.
  - AnimalMuppet 4y ago
    I think there's a balance. Changing your mind when given sufficient reason to do so is bravery. Changing your mind when given inadequate reason to do so is spineless. But that begs the question: What is adequate reason? curiousllama is saying that many of us will change for inadequate reasons, because we run into someone who knows more than we do on that particular topic. Not who is right, just who knows more. And if we adopt their position, we learn any more, just adopt their position. So I think that maybe you have to know why they hold that position, and whether that "why" is valid. But if it is, sure, be brave enough to adopt their position. But if you don't know the why, and whether the why is valid, and you adopt their position anyway... that's kind of spineless.
- telchior 4y ago
  Is it wrong to follow the opinion of someone with far more data than you? In the modern world, the vast majority of people (including me) don't have the mental capacity to examine everything. Whether we're talking about politics, science, art, whatever else. Most of us become narrow specialists who are pretty much incapable of forming a good, defensible opinion or concept for a great number of subjects -- both important and trivial ones. Granted, I don't know how you'd pick which experts to listen to and believe in a given field. I don't, personally, pick a subject matter expert and decide to believe them on everything. But I actually wish I could do that; there's just no social mechanism for picking those people.
  - tpoacher 4y ago
    data != useful information information != knowledge knowledge != wisdom E.g. there are mountains of astrology "data" daily, but my priors are strong enough to not let them affect my posteriors.
- tpoacher 4y ago
  "The problem with having an open mind is that other people will insist on trying to shove things in it". ~Terry Pratchett

curiousllama 4y ago

I got pretty good at this - it's not all it's cracked up to be. If you're really open minded & empirical, every time you talk to a specialist or hobbyist, you'd change your mind - simply because they have more data available. You're not at the mercy of the best idea, just the best argument; you're simply outsourcing your opinions. It's less "thoughtful" and more "spineless"

wussboy 4y ago
Your comment strikes at the core of the matter. Changing your mind is perceived as being spineless, or lacking in some essential moral component. It's unfortunate. Think of the millions who have died needlessly in large and small ways because humans were unable to admit the folly of their ways, even if they could clearly see it. I stand by my original comment. True bravery is being willing to change your mind about important things.
- curiousllama 4y ago
  > I stand by my original comment Not unexpected. After all, I did try to change your mind by saying "you should not change your mind."
  - guerrilla 4y ago
    I feel like this little interaction should be written into a play. It'd fit perfectly in Waiting for Godot.
  - wussboy 4y ago
    I feel like you’re implying “I am willing to change my mind” is equivalent to “I believe whatever the last thing I heard was”. But surely this is not so.
- AnimalMuppet 4y ago
  I think there's a balance. Changing your mind when given sufficient reason to do so is bravery. Changing your mind when given inadequate reason to do so is spineless. But that begs the question: What is adequate reason? curiousllama is saying that many of us will change for inadequate reasons, because we run into someone who knows more than we do on that particular topic. Not who is right, just who knows more. And if we adopt their position, we learn any more, just adopt their position. So I think that maybe you have to know why they hold that position, and whether that "why" is valid. But if it is, sure, be brave enough to adopt their position. But if you don't know the why, and whether the why is valid, and you adopt their position anyway... that's kind of spineless.
telchior 4y ago
Is it wrong to follow the opinion of someone with far more data than you? In the modern world, the vast majority of people (including me) don't have the mental capacity to examine everything. Whether we're talking about politics, science, art, whatever else. Most of us become narrow specialists who are pretty much incapable of forming a good, defensible opinion or concept for a great number of subjects -- both important and trivial ones. Granted, I don't know how you'd pick which experts to listen to and believe in a given field. I don't, personally, pick a subject matter expert and decide to believe them on everything. But I actually wish I could do that; there's just no social mechanism for picking those people.
- tpoacher 4y ago
  data != useful information information != knowledge knowledge != wisdom E.g. there are mountains of astrology "data" daily, but my priors are strong enough to not let them affect my posteriors.
tpoacher 4y ago
"The problem with having an open mind is that other people will insist on trying to shove things in it". ~Terry Pratchett