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> Sometimes I truly wonder how people can genuinely be upset about things like this. Tell me you regularly plagiarize without telling me you regularly plagiari

> Sometimes I truly wonder how people can genuinely be upset about things like this. Tell me you regularly plagiarize without telling me you regularly plagiarize.

ThereIsNoWorry 4y ago
Code plagiarization is not a thing by all practical purposes (it's even almost impossible to go to court with that for very obvious reasons). And that's good. Because with that insane lockdown of "Intellectual Property" nothing would ever get done. So, think what you want.
- teakettle42 4y ago
  > Code plagiarization is not a thing by all practical purposes Of course it is. Plagiarism is “the practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own.” It’s unethical and it will get you fired at any reputable company.
  - ThereIsNoWorry 4y ago
    Ok, then there doesn't exist a single reputable company with a tech division and we're all unethical. Have a nice unethical day.
    - teakettle42 4y ago
      > Ok, then there doesn't exist a single reputable company with a tech division and we're all unethical. Have a nice unethical day. I’m deeply disturbed that you think this form of plagiarism is universal — I can assure you that is not the case. I work at a FANG currently, and plagiarism is absolutely not tolerated. In fact, plagiarism has been considered a fireable offense at every other company I’ve worked at over my 25 year long career, and prior to that, considered a serious form of academic misconduct in school. It’s clearly unethical and I’ve never plagiarized in my life. I’ve only run into one instance of someone else plagiarizing code in my career, and that individual was fired.
      - ThereIsNoWorry 4y ago
        I'm disturbed you believe regurgitating code snippets is plagiarisation.
        teakettle42 4y ago
        It’s literally plagiarism by definition.
        ThereIsNoWorry 4y ago
        https://stackoverflow.blog/2021/12/30/how-often-do-people-actually-copy-and-paste-from-stack-overflow-now-we-know/ https://stackoverflow.blog/2021/12/30/how-often-do-people-ac... I feel like you're arguing in bad faith. So, whatever.
        teakettle42 4y ago
        Explaining a fundamental ethical concept you should have learned in primary school when writing your first book reports is not arguing in bad faith. SO’s license requires attribution. If you don’t want to be a plagiarist, you either need to include attribution, or you need to rewrite the solution in entirely your own words.
        ThereIsNoWorry 4y ago
        So, rearranging conditionals or loops or variables then, problem solved. You cannot 1:1 copy paste anyway. That never works. You always have to adapt it to your particularity. So it's "reworded" by default. And CoPilot is doing nothing else. It's not just 1:1 memorising code, it's a tiny bit smarter than that. I strongly believe you're not a developer. Point taken. I understand your considerations. You should write code sometimes to solve a complex problem that uses some libraries and see how far you get without consulting the internet or books.
        4y ago
- lin83 4y ago
  I don't think that's true and, if it was, it would be the death knell for open source. Code Plagiarism is taken very seriously by every company I have worked with. Multiple companies have been sued for violating the GPL. The SFC is currently fighting Vizio in court for example. While not commonplace, to say it's "almost impossible" is a stretch. Every large company complies with code copyright obligations for a reason. My company publishes changes to GCC and a dozen other GPL projects. Entire products like Protocode and BlackDuck exist to ensure code compliance. Even small code snippets are flagged. Over the past few years the source code for Windows, SQL server, Bing and Cortana have all been leaked. If someone built a product using that code, how long do you think it would take Microsoft to sue? CoPilot is one rule for mega-corps and another for everyone else.

> Sometimes I truly wonder how people can genuinely be upset about things like this. Tell me you regularly plagiarize without telling me you regularly plagiarize.

ThereIsNoWorry 4y ago

Code plagiarization is not a thing by all practical purposes (it's even almost impossible to go to court with that for very obvious reasons). And that's good. Because with that insane lockdown of "Intellectual Property" nothing would ever get done. So, think what you want.

teakettle42 4y ago
> Code plagiarization is not a thing by all practical purposes Of course it is. Plagiarism is “the practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own.” It’s unethical and it will get you fired at any reputable company.
- ThereIsNoWorry 4y ago
  Ok, then there doesn't exist a single reputable company with a tech division and we're all unethical. Have a nice unethical day.
  - teakettle42 4y ago
    > Ok, then there doesn't exist a single reputable company with a tech division and we're all unethical. Have a nice unethical day. I’m deeply disturbed that you think this form of plagiarism is universal — I can assure you that is not the case. I work at a FANG currently, and plagiarism is absolutely not tolerated. In fact, plagiarism has been considered a fireable offense at every other company I’ve worked at over my 25 year long career, and prior to that, considered a serious form of academic misconduct in school. It’s clearly unethical and I’ve never plagiarized in my life. I’ve only run into one instance of someone else plagiarizing code in my career, and that individual was fired.
    - ThereIsNoWorry 4y ago
      I'm disturbed you believe regurgitating code snippets is plagiarisation.
      - teakettle42 4y ago
        It’s literally plagiarism by definition.
        ThereIsNoWorry 4y ago
        https://stackoverflow.blog/2021/12/30/how-often-do-people-actually-copy-and-paste-from-stack-overflow-now-we-know/ https://stackoverflow.blog/2021/12/30/how-often-do-people-ac... I feel like you're arguing in bad faith. So, whatever.
        teakettle42 4y ago
        Explaining a fundamental ethical concept you should have learned in primary school when writing your first book reports is not arguing in bad faith. SO’s license requires attribution. If you don’t want to be a plagiarist, you either need to include attribution, or you need to rewrite the solution in entirely your own words.
        ThereIsNoWorry 4y ago
        So, rearranging conditionals or loops or variables then, problem solved. You cannot 1:1 copy paste anyway. That never works. You always have to adapt it to your particularity. So it's "reworded" by default. And CoPilot is doing nothing else. It's not just 1:1 memorising code, it's a tiny bit smarter than that. I strongly believe you're not a developer. Point taken. I understand your considerations. You should write code sometimes to solve a complex problem that uses some libraries and see how far you get without consulting the internet or books.
        4y ago
lin83 4y ago
I don't think that's true and, if it was, it would be the death knell for open source. Code Plagiarism is taken very seriously by every company I have worked with. Multiple companies have been sued for violating the GPL. The SFC is currently fighting Vizio in court for example. While not commonplace, to say it's "almost impossible" is a stretch. Every large company complies with code copyright obligations for a reason. My company publishes changes to GCC and a dozen other GPL projects. Entire products like Protocode and BlackDuck exist to ensure code compliance. Even small code snippets are flagged. Over the past few years the source code for Windows, SQL server, Bing and Cortana have all been leaked. If someone built a product using that code, how long do you think it would take Microsoft to sue? CoPilot is one rule for mega-corps and another for everyone else.