4 ms·

If you go out of your way to not do business with someone, in order to cripple them economically, then it is a punishment.

baxtr 4y ago
If you want to define punishment like that, it is your call. In my opinion it is not punishment to stop a relationship if the basis of that relationship was destroyed deliberately by one side.
- pastacacioepepe 4y ago
  I don't define it, it's exactly the official definition, like it or not: > punishment: the infliction or imposition of a penalty as retribution for an offence. Then you can play all you want with language to make it say what you'd like but it's pointless.
  - baxtr 4y ago
    An "offence" as defined in a criminal code? Two countries don't share a criminal code AFAIK.
    - pastacacioepepe 4y ago
      Why do I have to keep looking up dictionary definitions for you? And why do you keep playing futile language games? Spoiler: you are still wrong.
layer8 4y ago
The purpose is deterrence, not punishment.
- pastacacioepepe 4y ago
  And yet sanctions never work as a deterrent. Cuba is still socialist after 60 years of sanctions. Great deterrent! No, sanctions just punish generation after generation of innocent people and serve no other purpose. If you still mantain that the purpose is deterrence, then you must be a fool or worse, since it never works! Can't you learn from the past? Edit: Before you even dig out some article like this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/04/28/13-times-that-economic-sanctions-really-worked/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/04/28... I will make an important point: sanctions CAN work only to prevent something from happening. Once that happened, e.g. the war started, there's no sanction that can stop it and that's exactly when sanctions stop being a deterrent and start being a punishment.
  - trasz 4y ago
    And the fact that Russia is not capable of manufacturing tanks anymore has nothing to do whatsoever with sanctions?
  - The_Colonel 4y ago
    > No, sanctions just punish generation after generation of innocent people and serve no other purpose. They are pretty effective at preventing future wars. This war happened only because Russia wasn't crippled enough after 2014.
  - layer8 4y ago
    Obviously you have a much stronger opinion on that than I do, but at the very least, sanctions should deter other countries from acting in a similar fashion. For example, if — hypothetically — China is considering invading Taiwan, they will have to factor in that the Western world will stop doing business with them. If the West hadn’t put sanctions in place for Russia, that would lessen the concern for China. Maybe you think that isn’t worth it — that’s a valid personal judgement of course.

baxtr 4y ago

If you want to define punishment like that, it is your call. In my opinion it is not punishment to stop a relationship if the basis of that relationship was destroyed deliberately by one side.

pastacacioepepe 4y ago
I don't define it, it's exactly the official definition, like it or not: > punishment: the infliction or imposition of a penalty as retribution for an offence. Then you can play all you want with language to make it say what you'd like but it's pointless.
- baxtr 4y ago
  An "offence" as defined in a criminal code? Two countries don't share a criminal code AFAIK.
  - pastacacioepepe 4y ago
    Why do I have to keep looking up dictionary definitions for you? And why do you keep playing futile language games? Spoiler: you are still wrong.

layer8 4y ago

The purpose is deterrence, not punishment.

pastacacioepepe 4y ago
And yet sanctions never work as a deterrent. Cuba is still socialist after 60 years of sanctions. Great deterrent! No, sanctions just punish generation after generation of innocent people and serve no other purpose. If you still mantain that the purpose is deterrence, then you must be a fool or worse, since it never works! Can't you learn from the past? Edit: Before you even dig out some article like this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/04/28/13-times-that-economic-sanctions-really-worked/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/04/28... I will make an important point: sanctions CAN work only to prevent something from happening. Once that happened, e.g. the war started, there's no sanction that can stop it and that's exactly when sanctions stop being a deterrent and start being a punishment.
- trasz 4y ago
  And the fact that Russia is not capable of manufacturing tanks anymore has nothing to do whatsoever with sanctions?
- The_Colonel 4y ago
  > No, sanctions just punish generation after generation of innocent people and serve no other purpose. They are pretty effective at preventing future wars. This war happened only because Russia wasn't crippled enough after 2014.
- layer8 4y ago
  Obviously you have a much stronger opinion on that than I do, but at the very least, sanctions should deter other countries from acting in a similar fashion. For example, if — hypothetically — China is considering invading Taiwan, they will have to factor in that the Western world will stop doing business with them. If the West hadn’t put sanctions in place for Russia, that would lessen the concern for China. Maybe you think that isn’t worth it — that’s a valid personal judgement of course.