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In another summary at medicalXpress, the researchers mention melatonin "Our research shows that the escape of circulating cancer cells from the original tumor

In another summary at medicalXpress, the researchers mention melatonin "Our research shows that the escape of circulating cancer cells from the original tumor is controlled by hormones such as melatonin, which determine our rhythms of day and night" https://medicalxpress.com/news/2022-06-breast-cancer-night.html https://medicalxpress.com/news/2022-06-breast-cancer-night.h...

jjallen 4y ago
I was just going to mention melatonin related to this. I know that heavy doses of melatonin slow or kill cancer[citation needed]. And you have to think this is somehow related to this research. Although you would expect the opposite of cancer growing at night, when melatonin is ostensibly at its highest (does it peak or start at 8PM?).
- pazimzadeh 4y ago
  It would be good to know what the immune system is doing during sleep. As I understand it, metastasis is caused by a local depletion in nutrients or stress to the tumor cells, which then try to find a new environment to occupy. If tumor-killing activity of the immune system happens primarily at night, that could explain why metastasis is also primarily at night, and may explain the discrepancy on melatonin which you just mentioned, where this study found that higher melatonin levels correlated with higher circulating tumor cell numbers, but the literature suggests that melatonin helps kill tumors.
  - hun3 4y ago
    > where this study found that higher melatonin levels correlated with higher circulating tumor cell numbers, but the literature suggests that melatonin helps kill tumors. Looks like a feedback cycle
- weberer 4y ago
  >I know that heavy doses of melatonin slow or kill cancer Melatonin is an antioxidant, which destroys chemicals known to cause cancer. I can't find info on it destroying cancer cells directly.
  - pdimitar 4y ago
    Well, FINALLY a scientific explanation about "sleep from 22:00 to 6:00, you'll be healthier" thing that is being constantly peddled! It really pisses me off when people just keep repeating stuff and never support them with evidence. This here however -- your tidbit -- is something I can work with and might prompt me to change my habits. Any idea if taking melatonin pills while still going to bed at 4:00 is having the same, or at least some effect? Or does it not work at all then?
    - chmod775 4y ago
      The problem is that sleep does so much, that even trying to create a list seems impossible, but some try: https://www.healthline.com/health/why-do-we-sleep https://www.healthline.com/health/why-do-we-sleep Sleep has been researched heavily (but far from conclusively), and there is an insane amount of diseases that people who don't get enough sleep are a risk group for. And some of those correlations are quite pronounced, like being ~30% more likely to get dementia if you don't get enough sleep in your 50s and 60s. In some cases nobody can conclusively say whether there's causation, because we don't fully understand diseases like alzheimer or some of the processes happening during sleep, but in the meantime it seems prudent to sleep a healthy amount.
      - TaupeRanger 4y ago
        If you have the causation backwards in your phrasing, that implies that perhaps some people simply can't get good sleep even though they might try. You could say: you're 30% more likely to have sleep problems in your 50s and 60s if you're in the very early stages of developing dementia. Perhaps the disease process makes the sleep problems unavoidable and trying sleep more won't help.
        paulryanrogers 4y ago
        Possibly. Without controlled trials we may never know certainly enough to satisfy some. But considering the lifestyle loss from dementia I'd rather risk losing some waking time instead.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
adamredwoods 4y ago
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8123278 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8123278 >> Melatonin exhibited various mechanisms to restrain metastasis, such as modulation of cell–cell and cell–matrix interaction, extracellular matrix remodeling by matrix metalloproteinases, readjustment of the cytoskeleton, epithelial-mesenchymal transition, and angiogenesis [127]. A recent study reported that the overexpression of the ADAMTS family in renal cell carcinoma was suppressed by melatonin via amplifying of miR-let-7f/miR-181d and reducing protein stability. It is of note that ADAMTS, a disintegrin, and metalloprotease with thrombospondin motifs family, thought to have an impact on cell metastasis and developing of cancer stages. Note: >> Melatonin has short plasma half-life, variable oral absorption, and low variable bioavailability that could be due to extensive first pass metabolism [327], in addition to its poor solubility and stability [328]. Therefore, conventional oral dosage forms (immediate release) are unsuitable candidates for melatonin delivery.

jjallen 4y ago

I was just going to mention melatonin related to this. I know that heavy doses of melatonin slow or kill cancer[citation needed]. And you have to think this is somehow related to this research. Although you would expect the opposite of cancer growing at night, when melatonin is ostensibly at its highest (does it peak or start at 8PM?).

pazimzadeh 4y ago
It would be good to know what the immune system is doing during sleep. As I understand it, metastasis is caused by a local depletion in nutrients or stress to the tumor cells, which then try to find a new environment to occupy. If tumor-killing activity of the immune system happens primarily at night, that could explain why metastasis is also primarily at night, and may explain the discrepancy on melatonin which you just mentioned, where this study found that higher melatonin levels correlated with higher circulating tumor cell numbers, but the literature suggests that melatonin helps kill tumors.
- hun3 4y ago
  > where this study found that higher melatonin levels correlated with higher circulating tumor cell numbers, but the literature suggests that melatonin helps kill tumors. Looks like a feedback cycle
weberer 4y ago
>I know that heavy doses of melatonin slow or kill cancer Melatonin is an antioxidant, which destroys chemicals known to cause cancer. I can't find info on it destroying cancer cells directly.
- pdimitar 4y ago
  Well, FINALLY a scientific explanation about "sleep from 22:00 to 6:00, you'll be healthier" thing that is being constantly peddled! It really pisses me off when people just keep repeating stuff and never support them with evidence. This here however -- your tidbit -- is something I can work with and might prompt me to change my habits. Any idea if taking melatonin pills while still going to bed at 4:00 is having the same, or at least some effect? Or does it not work at all then?
  - chmod775 4y ago
    The problem is that sleep does so much, that even trying to create a list seems impossible, but some try: https://www.healthline.com/health/why-do-we-sleep https://www.healthline.com/health/why-do-we-sleep Sleep has been researched heavily (but far from conclusively), and there is an insane amount of diseases that people who don't get enough sleep are a risk group for. And some of those correlations are quite pronounced, like being ~30% more likely to get dementia if you don't get enough sleep in your 50s and 60s. In some cases nobody can conclusively say whether there's causation, because we don't fully understand diseases like alzheimer or some of the processes happening during sleep, but in the meantime it seems prudent to sleep a healthy amount.
    - TaupeRanger 4y ago
      If you have the causation backwards in your phrasing, that implies that perhaps some people simply can't get good sleep even though they might try. You could say: you're 30% more likely to have sleep problems in your 50s and 60s if you're in the very early stages of developing dementia. Perhaps the disease process makes the sleep problems unavoidable and trying sleep more won't help.
      - paulryanrogers 4y ago
        Possibly. Without controlled trials we may never know certainly enough to satisfy some. But considering the lifestyle loss from dementia I'd rather risk losing some waking time instead.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

adamredwoods 4y ago

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8123278 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8123278 >> Melatonin exhibited various mechanisms to restrain metastasis, such as modulation of cell–cell and cell–matrix interaction, extracellular matrix remodeling by matrix metalloproteinases, readjustment of the cytoskeleton, epithelial-mesenchymal transition, and angiogenesis [127]. A recent study reported that the overexpression of the ADAMTS family in renal cell carcinoma was suppressed by melatonin via amplifying of miR-let-7f/miR-181d and reducing protein stability. It is of note that ADAMTS, a disintegrin, and metalloprotease with thrombospondin motifs family, thought to have an impact on cell metastasis and developing of cancer stages. Note: >> Melatonin has short plasma half-life, variable oral absorption, and low variable bioavailability that could be due to extensive first pass metabolism [327], in addition to its poor solubility and stability [328]. Therefore, conventional oral dosage forms (immediate release) are unsuitable candidates for melatonin delivery.