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> the same argument can be made for being overweight. What an ignorant and offensive comment. People do not choose their weight the way they choose to smoke or

> the same argument can be made for being overweight. What an ignorant and offensive comment. People do not choose their weight the way they choose to smoke or not smoke. Weight is an outcome that has many factors outside of diet and behavioral choices. And diet, when it is a factor, is not a simple factor. Many, many people make very good dietary choices and remain overweight. Many of those same people exercise regularly and remain overweight. Please don't judge people for being overweight -- and don't blame them either.

whalee 4y ago
> Weight is an outcome that has many factors outside of diet Thermodynamics disagrees with this assertion.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- wyre 4y ago
  Calories in == calories out. Right. Calories in is diet, yes. Calories out is influenced heavily by hereditary and lifestyle factors that are outside of diet.
  - brianwawok 4y ago
    Right. So if you are burning less calories and want to lose weight, you eat less? It's hard, I get it. I am losing weight right now. But I don't say I can't lose weight.
- boplicity 4y ago
  It would seem pretty straightforward and intuitive that people get the same amount of calories from identical foods. However, that is not true. Once food enters our bodies -- especially our colon, it encounters our microbiomes. Everybody has a different microbiome -- little bugs/bacteria in our gut. Some of these bacteria convert undigestable foods into usable calories that are then absorbed by our bodies. (Short Chain Fatty Acids.) The amount of food converted by these bacteria varies depending on an individual's unique microbiome. So, it turns out that no, not all food results in the same amount of calorie absorption. This is something that varies significantly, and not just based on the microbiome, though this is certainly one of the factors.
  - brianwawok 4y ago
    But that doesn't matter! Let's say you and me eat the same food. I get 2x the calories out of the food as you do due to my super gut biosphere. Therefore, if I want to weigh the same, I must eat half the food. Your argument is an argument for why Calories are not perfect, and I 100% agree. However, you can just pick any calorie amount as as starting number. Weigh yourself on a scale ever day. If weight is going up, decrease calories by 200 per day. If weight is going down, increase by 200 per day. The exact rate of burning calories is not important. And that is why the 2,000 calorie a day diet is a very very rough guess.
    - boplicity 4y ago
      You're assuming that the body absorbs calories the same way, even under different circumstances, such as various caloric intakes. This isn't always true. People too often assume that bodies are like cars, and that food is like gasoline. This is not true. Our bodies are far more complex (and interesting) than mechanical machines. The food we eat is also far more complex (and interesting) than gasoline as well.
samatman 4y ago
"Just stop putting it in your mouth" same argument.
itisit 4y ago
> People do not choose their weight the way they choose to smoke or not smoke. Oh dear. The vast majority of them most certainly do. I’m stunned to read you think otherwise.
- presentation 4y ago
  While it's true for typical cases at a micro level, people do "choose" to get fat little by little with every dietary choice they make, there's a lot of ways that it ends up out of your control: - your parents overfed you while you were a child and now you're fat before you really had agency - you had a medical condition and your medication is associated with weight gain - you have a stressful lifestyle and have fallen on eating as a stress relief mechanism, leading you to gain weight - the food you have available in your neighborhood is all junk and you get fat as a result - the cuisine in your country is generally junk and portion sizes are out of control (I'm looking at you, America) - everyone in your community is fat and so you consider that normal - you do just have slower metabolism than others and so staying lean is just more effort Not to say that it's outside one's control to control their weight (I live in Japan, practically nobody here is fat), but it's not quite as simple as choosing to smoke or not. Lots of ways you can end up fat "by default" whereas smoking does involve the explicit choice to start (by default you don't smoke).
  - brianwawok 4y ago
    Except every one of these can be solved by eating less. That's it!
aiisjustanif 4y ago
Tangential thought, I miss when Hackernews comments provided references more. Maybe I’m just an old person. Regardless, research has show being obese or overweight is by and large preventable. > Overweight and obesity, as well as their related noncommunicable diseases, are largely preventable. Supportive environments and communities are fundamental in shaping people’s choices, by making the choice of healthier foods and regular physical activity the easiest choice (the choice that is the most accessible, available and affordable), and therefore preventing overweight and obesity. [1] However, compared to smoking it is an issue that affects more people and has been addresses muuuch less > The study reveals that obesity is linked to very high rates of chronic illnesses — higher than living in poverty, and much higher than smoking or drinking. [2] > In 2016, more than 1.9 billion adults aged 18 years and older were overweight. Of these over 650 million adults were obese. [1] [1]: https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/obesity-and-overweight https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/obesity-and... [2]: https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB4549.html https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB4549.html
MisterMower 4y ago
Well smoking is a well known appetite suppressant: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6368221/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6368221/ I’m of the opinion that the obesity epidemic and the large decrease in smoking in the US are not unrelated.

whalee 4y ago

> Weight is an outcome that has many factors outside of diet Thermodynamics disagrees with this assertion.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
wyre 4y ago
Calories in == calories out. Right. Calories in is diet, yes. Calories out is influenced heavily by hereditary and lifestyle factors that are outside of diet.
- brianwawok 4y ago
  Right. So if you are burning less calories and want to lose weight, you eat less? It's hard, I get it. I am losing weight right now. But I don't say I can't lose weight.
boplicity 4y ago
It would seem pretty straightforward and intuitive that people get the same amount of calories from identical foods. However, that is not true. Once food enters our bodies -- especially our colon, it encounters our microbiomes. Everybody has a different microbiome -- little bugs/bacteria in our gut. Some of these bacteria convert undigestable foods into usable calories that are then absorbed by our bodies. (Short Chain Fatty Acids.) The amount of food converted by these bacteria varies depending on an individual's unique microbiome. So, it turns out that no, not all food results in the same amount of calorie absorption. This is something that varies significantly, and not just based on the microbiome, though this is certainly one of the factors.
- brianwawok 4y ago
  But that doesn't matter! Let's say you and me eat the same food. I get 2x the calories out of the food as you do due to my super gut biosphere. Therefore, if I want to weigh the same, I must eat half the food. Your argument is an argument for why Calories are not perfect, and I 100% agree. However, you can just pick any calorie amount as as starting number. Weigh yourself on a scale ever day. If weight is going up, decrease calories by 200 per day. If weight is going down, increase by 200 per day. The exact rate of burning calories is not important. And that is why the 2,000 calorie a day diet is a very very rough guess.
  - boplicity 4y ago
    You're assuming that the body absorbs calories the same way, even under different circumstances, such as various caloric intakes. This isn't always true. People too often assume that bodies are like cars, and that food is like gasoline. This is not true. Our bodies are far more complex (and interesting) than mechanical machines. The food we eat is also far more complex (and interesting) than gasoline as well.

samatman 4y ago

"Just stop putting it in your mouth" same argument.

itisit 4y ago

> People do not choose their weight the way they choose to smoke or not smoke. Oh dear. The vast majority of them most certainly do. I’m stunned to read you think otherwise.

presentation 4y ago
While it's true for typical cases at a micro level, people do "choose" to get fat little by little with every dietary choice they make, there's a lot of ways that it ends up out of your control: - your parents overfed you while you were a child and now you're fat before you really had agency - you had a medical condition and your medication is associated with weight gain - you have a stressful lifestyle and have fallen on eating as a stress relief mechanism, leading you to gain weight - the food you have available in your neighborhood is all junk and you get fat as a result - the cuisine in your country is generally junk and portion sizes are out of control (I'm looking at you, America) - everyone in your community is fat and so you consider that normal - you do just have slower metabolism than others and so staying lean is just more effort Not to say that it's outside one's control to control their weight (I live in Japan, practically nobody here is fat), but it's not quite as simple as choosing to smoke or not. Lots of ways you can end up fat "by default" whereas smoking does involve the explicit choice to start (by default you don't smoke).
- brianwawok 4y ago
  Except every one of these can be solved by eating less. That's it!

aiisjustanif 4y ago

Tangential thought, I miss when Hackernews comments provided references more. Maybe I’m just an old person. Regardless, research has show being obese or overweight is by and large preventable. > Overweight and obesity, as well as their related noncommunicable diseases, are largely preventable. Supportive environments and communities are fundamental in shaping people’s choices, by making the choice of healthier foods and regular physical activity the easiest choice (the choice that is the most accessible, available and affordable), and therefore preventing overweight and obesity. [1] However, compared to smoking it is an issue that affects more people and has been addresses muuuch less > The study reveals that obesity is linked to very high rates of chronic illnesses — higher than living in poverty, and much higher than smoking or drinking. [2] > In 2016, more than 1.9 billion adults aged 18 years and older were overweight. Of these over 650 million adults were obese. [1] [1]: https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/obesity-and-overweight https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/obesity-and... [2]: https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB4549.html https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB4549.html

MisterMower 4y ago

Well smoking is a well known appetite suppressant: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6368221/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6368221/ I’m of the opinion that the obesity epidemic and the large decrease in smoking in the US are not unrelated.