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I don't know if this is universal, but in my circles "microfrontends" are now all the rage. How do you bring up concerns with that in good faith? It's so obvio

I don't know if this is universal, but in my circles "microfrontends" are now all the rage. How do you bring up concerns with that in good faith? It's so obviously terrible that I've no idea where to begin.

ryanmcbride 4y ago
GOD I hate microfrontends. Had a client that had a single, relatively simple application that they wanted as 3 separate angular apps. The reasoning was that they wanted to be able to autoscale them separately? Was unable to convince them that the gains from that would be negligible, especially for an internal tool, and that scaling the whole frontend instead of a single part of it would have virtually no downside since each app was basically a single form, but tons of upsides like less code complexity, easier data persistence, and fewer versioning issues, faster build time. But they didn't care. To this day I don't know what manager was sold so firmly on building 3 apps when one would do, but not my problem anymore.
- 3np 4y ago
  Could you have done "the monorepo approach" and just have the same code deployed in 3 instances with different `APP_MODE` configuration value or something like that? :P
  - ryanmcbride 4y ago
    Possibly but that client is actually what made me quit the firm so I don't even know where that project ended up (probably in the trash). I quit not just because of their weird code requirements but also because I had a 5am standup every day because their engineering team was in the IST timezone, and also had to drive to Palo Alto (about 2 hours in the morning) every day because even though the rest of their team was in Bangalore, they had a requirement that all external contractors only work on prem. The firm I worked for couldn't or wouldn't reassign me and I just so happened to get an email from a company I really wanted to work for. So I reassigned myself.
pixelrevision 4y ago
Sounds like a big brained term for web pages. I’d lean into that.
codethief 4y ago
Oh lawd, at our client people recently pushed that idea, too. Unfortunately, managers were all on board ("Every team will be able to release autonomously and much faster!!!11") and it became politically impossible to argue for alternatives that won't result in dependency and infrastructure hell. So here we are now, splitting off every single page of a god damn legacy web shop into a separate micro frontend, each of which will be running on a completely different stack (some SPA, some traditional SSR with jQuery), living in a separate repository and with a separate microservice in the backend. But how does one share common UI components, you ask? Well, obviously by enabling Server-Side Includes on the ingress server. Duh.
- wildrhythms 4y ago
  we are slowly returning to iframes :)
- uwuemu 4y ago
  Oh no... you know what, maybe we don't deserve to cross the great firewall as a species.
strikelaserclaw 4y ago
microfront ends work well for self contained components that need to be used in multiple pages, they don't even need to have a "separate" backend, as long as there is an area or code file for the backend code that deals with whatever data the microfront end needs.
- strix_varius 4y ago
  In such a component-oriented circumstance, what is the motivation for choosing a “microfrontend” approach instead of, say, a component?
  - weq 4y ago
    The longer you are a developer, the more you see fads a cylic just like anything else in this world. rebranding happens every 5 to 10 years for most things.
    - nevercomments 4y ago
      2008: Website with jQuery 2022: Server side rendering using island-based architecture for client-side rehydration of interactive components
- morelisp 4y ago
  Please stop.
- collyw 4y ago
  What kind of component are you talking about? Could you give an example, because as a backend dev, I have no idea what sort of thing would require that level of separation.
3np 4y ago
First time I encounter the term, immediate reaction "hmm, maybe we're already kind of doing this?", thinking about mapping a dozen or so services to different HTTP endpoints/prefixes under the same root. Then I did a search. Oh lord. One of the top results[0] is an illustrative guide on how to split out a Button component into an independent deployment... I can only hope that applying this on a Button is not supposed to be taken literally but I can also only assume that thousands of professional have now made it their calling to split out every component into its own "microfrontend"... EDIT: Nope, looks idiomatic. [1] [0] https://levelup.gitconnected.com/micro-frontends-step-by-step-using-react-webpack-5-and-module-federation-e4b9d840ec71 https://levelup.gitconnected.com/micro-frontends-step-by-ste... [1] https://microfrontends.info/microfrontends/ https://microfrontends.info/microfrontends/
dc-programmer 4y ago
I must run in different circles because I had to Google it. Probably the only thing that made me laugh audibly today.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
ngc248 4y ago
MicroFrontEnds (MFE) solve an actual problem, but it becomes a problem if developers do it for the sake of RDD (Resume Driven Development) or just because. My Company has a Cloud platform which is kinda like a marketplace and users can install and uninstall apps/services. In our case MFEs are a perfect fit.
- Torn 4y ago
  iframes also work pretty well for this kinda thing :D
- strix_varius 4y ago
  I have yet to see such a scenario where either web components or iframes would not have been a better fit.

ryanmcbride 4y ago

GOD I hate microfrontends. Had a client that had a single, relatively simple application that they wanted as 3 separate angular apps. The reasoning was that they wanted to be able to autoscale them separately? Was unable to convince them that the gains from that would be negligible, especially for an internal tool, and that scaling the whole frontend instead of a single part of it would have virtually no downside since each app was basically a single form, but tons of upsides like less code complexity, easier data persistence, and fewer versioning issues, faster build time. But they didn't care. To this day I don't know what manager was sold so firmly on building 3 apps when one would do, but not my problem anymore.

3np 4y ago
Could you have done "the monorepo approach" and just have the same code deployed in 3 instances with different `APP_MODE` configuration value or something like that? :P
- ryanmcbride 4y ago
  Possibly but that client is actually what made me quit the firm so I don't even know where that project ended up (probably in the trash). I quit not just because of their weird code requirements but also because I had a 5am standup every day because their engineering team was in the IST timezone, and also had to drive to Palo Alto (about 2 hours in the morning) every day because even though the rest of their team was in Bangalore, they had a requirement that all external contractors only work on prem. The firm I worked for couldn't or wouldn't reassign me and I just so happened to get an email from a company I really wanted to work for. So I reassigned myself.

pixelrevision 4y ago

Sounds like a big brained term for web pages. I’d lean into that.

codethief 4y ago

Oh lawd, at our client people recently pushed that idea, too. Unfortunately, managers were all on board ("Every team will be able to release autonomously and much faster!!!11") and it became politically impossible to argue for alternatives that won't result in dependency and infrastructure hell. So here we are now, splitting off every single page of a god damn legacy web shop into a separate micro frontend, each of which will be running on a completely different stack (some SPA, some traditional SSR with jQuery), living in a separate repository and with a separate microservice in the backend. But how does one share common UI components, you ask? Well, obviously by enabling Server-Side Includes on the ingress server. Duh.

wildrhythms 4y ago
we are slowly returning to iframes :)
uwuemu 4y ago
Oh no... you know what, maybe we don't deserve to cross the great firewall as a species.

strikelaserclaw 4y ago

microfront ends work well for self contained components that need to be used in multiple pages, they don't even need to have a "separate" backend, as long as there is an area or code file for the backend code that deals with whatever data the microfront end needs.

strix_varius 4y ago
In such a component-oriented circumstance, what is the motivation for choosing a “microfrontend” approach instead of, say, a component?
- weq 4y ago
  The longer you are a developer, the more you see fads a cylic just like anything else in this world. rebranding happens every 5 to 10 years for most things.
  - nevercomments 4y ago
    2008: Website with jQuery 2022: Server side rendering using island-based architecture for client-side rehydration of interactive components
morelisp 4y ago
Please stop.
collyw 4y ago
What kind of component are you talking about? Could you give an example, because as a backend dev, I have no idea what sort of thing would require that level of separation.

3np 4y ago

First time I encounter the term, immediate reaction "hmm, maybe we're already kind of doing this?", thinking about mapping a dozen or so services to different HTTP endpoints/prefixes under the same root. Then I did a search. Oh lord. One of the top results[0] is an illustrative guide on how to split out a Button component into an independent deployment... I can only hope that applying this on a Button is not supposed to be taken literally but I can also only assume that thousands of professional have now made it their calling to split out every component into its own "microfrontend"... EDIT: Nope, looks idiomatic. [1] [0] https://levelup.gitconnected.com/micro-frontends-step-by-step-using-react-webpack-5-and-module-federation-e4b9d840ec71 https://levelup.gitconnected.com/micro-frontends-step-by-ste... [1] https://microfrontends.info/microfrontends/ https://microfrontends.info/microfrontends/

dc-programmer 4y ago

I must run in different circles because I had to Google it. Probably the only thing that made me laugh audibly today.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

ngc248 4y ago

MicroFrontEnds (MFE) solve an actual problem, but it becomes a problem if developers do it for the sake of RDD (Resume Driven Development) or just because. My Company has a Cloud platform which is kinda like a marketplace and users can install and uninstall apps/services. In our case MFEs are a perfect fit.

Torn 4y ago
iframes also work pretty well for this kinda thing :D
strix_varius 4y ago
I have yet to see such a scenario where either web components or iframes would not have been a better fit.