4 ms·

Give it a little more time and it'll be like 2x4s. At one point they were actually 2" by 4", but now they're 3.5" by 1.5" and that's the standard size and we're

Give it a little more time and it'll be like 2x4s. At one point they were actually 2" by 4", but now they're 3.5" by 1.5" and that's the standard size and we're stuck with this dumb little detail where the name doesn't match reality and everybody just accepts it - but it confuses virtually every single person on the planet at LEAST once or twice in their life.

walrus01 4y ago
if you really want to see something that's irretrievably stuck in american measurements, take a look at the national engineering standards and vendor sources for telecom tower components... for anything from a light duty 40' aluminum self support you might put in your yard for ham radio all the way up to gargantuan 2000' guyed broadcast towers. canada has no hope of doing anything in metric here, everything is in US units, and probably will be until the year 2200
selectodude 4y ago
2x4s are 2" by 4" before they're finished. If you search S4S (sanded 4 sides) 2x4s, they will actually be 2" by 4". If you get the wood with rounded corners, they take a quarter inch off each side to "finish" it. It's been that way for 100 years.
- mritun 4y ago
  Sneaky, eh?
- kennywinker 4y ago
  I don't think that's right. > The limited availability of lumber and the rapid pace of housing construction made other methods like concrete-block housing viable. This pressured further compromise because thinner 2x4s were a way to compete in price with wood alternatives. Size standards, maximum moisture content, and nomenclature were agreed upon only as recently as 1964. The nominal 2x4 thus became the actual 1½ x 3½, imperceptibly, a fraction of an inch at a time. http://www.harvarddesignmagazine.org/issues/45/nominal-versus-actual-a-history-of-the-2x4 http://www.harvarddesignmagazine.org/issues/45/nominal-versu... So it seems the reduction was was driven by cost saving, not a product of the finishing process, and it's actually only been standardized that way for 58 years.
The_Colonel 4y ago
What is 2x4?
- walrus01 4y ago
  a north american measurement of wood
- fragmede 4y ago
  It refers to pieces of wood used for building in North America, which comes in 2 inch by 4 inches by x feet, where x is generally 8 or 10.
  - Akronymus 4y ago
    So, basically a 50x100mm piece of lumber? (I rounded those values because if the US were to go metric, the dimension would slightly change, rather than being exactly 50.8 by 101.6 mm)
    - kennywinker 4y ago
      Except, per my original point - it’s called a 2x4 - but it’s not actually 2 inches by 4 inches, which would be as you say 50ish x 100ish mm. In reality it’s actually standardized to be 38 x 89 mm
      - Akronymus 4y ago
        Guess 40 by 90 then. What I tried to convey, in a stupid way, is that there wouldnt be an exact translation of the measurements into metric, but that the dimensions qould slightly change in switching over. and now I realize that that point was irrelevant anyways. Sorry for derailing the thread with useless replies.
thedougd 4y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumber#Dimensional_lumber https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumber#Dimensional_lumber "Dimensional lumber is available in green, unfinished state, and for that kind of lumber, the nominal dimensions are the actual dimensions."
- kennywinker 4y ago
  > For example, a "2×4" board historically started out as a green, rough board actually 2 by 4 inches (51 mm × 102 mm). After drying and planing, it would be smaller by a nonstandard amount. Today, a "2×4" board starts out as something smaller than 2 inches by 4 inches and not specified by standards, and after drying and planing is minimally 1+1⁄2 by 3+1⁄2 inches (38 mm × 89 mm).[8] Your quote just means when you're buying green wood and it says it's 2"x4" it will be exactly 2"x4". It doesn't mean a 2x4 started out as a 2"x4" green board.
  - thedougd 4y ago
    > Historically, the nominal dimensions were the size of the green (not dried), rough (unfinished) boards that eventually became smaller finished lumber through drying and planing (to smooth the wood). Today, the standards specify the final finished dimensions and the mill cuts the logs to whatever size it needs to achieve those final dimensions. I was originally pointing out that the naming is simply a standard and convention, 'dimensional lumber'. All that matters is that if I buy a '2 by' almost anywhere in the United States, it will be close to the same size and characteristics.

walrus01 4y ago

if you really want to see something that's irretrievably stuck in american measurements, take a look at the national engineering standards and vendor sources for telecom tower components... for anything from a light duty 40' aluminum self support you might put in your yard for ham radio all the way up to gargantuan 2000' guyed broadcast towers. canada has no hope of doing anything in metric here, everything is in US units, and probably will be until the year 2200

selectodude 4y ago

2x4s are 2" by 4" before they're finished. If you search S4S (sanded 4 sides) 2x4s, they will actually be 2" by 4". If you get the wood with rounded corners, they take a quarter inch off each side to "finish" it. It's been that way for 100 years.

mritun 4y ago
Sneaky, eh?
kennywinker 4y ago
I don't think that's right. > The limited availability of lumber and the rapid pace of housing construction made other methods like concrete-block housing viable. This pressured further compromise because thinner 2x4s were a way to compete in price with wood alternatives. Size standards, maximum moisture content, and nomenclature were agreed upon only as recently as 1964. The nominal 2x4 thus became the actual 1½ x 3½, imperceptibly, a fraction of an inch at a time. http://www.harvarddesignmagazine.org/issues/45/nominal-versus-actual-a-history-of-the-2x4 http://www.harvarddesignmagazine.org/issues/45/nominal-versu... So it seems the reduction was was driven by cost saving, not a product of the finishing process, and it's actually only been standardized that way for 58 years.

The_Colonel 4y ago

What is 2x4?

walrus01 4y ago
a north american measurement of wood
fragmede 4y ago
It refers to pieces of wood used for building in North America, which comes in 2 inch by 4 inches by x feet, where x is generally 8 or 10.
- Akronymus 4y ago
  So, basically a 50x100mm piece of lumber? (I rounded those values because if the US were to go metric, the dimension would slightly change, rather than being exactly 50.8 by 101.6 mm)
  - kennywinker 4y ago
    Except, per my original point - it’s called a 2x4 - but it’s not actually 2 inches by 4 inches, which would be as you say 50ish x 100ish mm. In reality it’s actually standardized to be 38 x 89 mm
    - Akronymus 4y ago
      Guess 40 by 90 then. What I tried to convey, in a stupid way, is that there wouldnt be an exact translation of the measurements into metric, but that the dimensions qould slightly change in switching over. and now I realize that that point was irrelevant anyways. Sorry for derailing the thread with useless replies.

thedougd 4y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumber#Dimensional_lumber https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumber#Dimensional_lumber "Dimensional lumber is available in green, unfinished state, and for that kind of lumber, the nominal dimensions are the actual dimensions."

kennywinker 4y ago
> For example, a "2×4" board historically started out as a green, rough board actually 2 by 4 inches (51 mm × 102 mm). After drying and planing, it would be smaller by a nonstandard amount. Today, a "2×4" board starts out as something smaller than 2 inches by 4 inches and not specified by standards, and after drying and planing is minimally 1+1⁄2 by 3+1⁄2 inches (38 mm × 89 mm).[8] Your quote just means when you're buying green wood and it says it's 2"x4" it will be exactly 2"x4". It doesn't mean a 2x4 started out as a 2"x4" green board.
- thedougd 4y ago
  > Historically, the nominal dimensions were the size of the green (not dried), rough (unfinished) boards that eventually became smaller finished lumber through drying and planing (to smooth the wood). Today, the standards specify the final finished dimensions and the mill cuts the logs to whatever size it needs to achieve those final dimensions. I was originally pointing out that the naming is simply a standard and convention, 'dimensional lumber'. All that matters is that if I buy a '2 by' almost anywhere in the United States, it will be close to the same size and characteristics.