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> I'm a little sympathetic to Google here, because there's no way that they can offer real customer service to the entire Internet. I run some small businesses

by gist 4y ago

> I'm a little sympathetic to Google here, because there's no way that they can offer real customer service to the entire Internet. I run some small businesses and get dumb phone calls all of the time from confused people thinking that my random shop has anything to do with their phone plan or email issues or a problem with their cable bill or anything else under the sun because they ended up at my store after putting certain keywords into Google In part I want to agree with you because I get the same version of random calls but for different reasons. But the truth is the difference between what we (or anyone) is doing and what google is doing is google makes plenty of money that they can use to throw at the problem. The fact that you give something away at no charge (but actually make money or even if you don't make money) is not a reason you can then walk away and not have any responsibility at all for anything and everything. (Or shouldn't be). > 3) The solution for Google is really easy though: charge some fee for human support that keeps customer service requests to a manageable level. When it's a genuine issue, people will pay some fee to get an actual trained person to pay attention to and hopefully resolve. So you have to wonder then what is the reason they don't do this as many probably (including myself) have thought of the same thing. Sure they do have that with business email (google workspace). > 4) I'm sure people have committed suicide and lost jobs because of the consequences from Google blocking their account without any recourse. This is definitely not an acceptable state of affairs, and I'd suggest avoiding using Google products whenever possible until this reprehensible behavior is changed. This is most likely true and was also true with certain other products of companies let's even say Microsoft. Imagine the amount of frustration (falling short of suicide I mean) that people have as a result of using product that don't work or offer little or no support. Also another point (that you didn't make) is the behavior by google then enables all sorts of other companies who would never act that way (and have no reason to) to act the same way (similar again to what happened when the first PC's came out). In many cases the end users became the beta testers for products (and they still are) that are released to early.

romanhn 4y ago
> The fact that you give something away at no charge (but actually make money or even if you don't make money) is not a reason you can then walk away and not have any responsibility at all for anything and everything. (Or shouldn't be). I'm very sympathetic to OP's situation, I have also lost an account with years of irreplaceable emails to Google's finicky algorithms. But this right here is a slippery slope I would never wish for. Offering a free product should absolutely not entitle any random user to any kind of support. I should be able to release a product (whether open-source, free, or paid) and decide for myself and my business the level of support I want to provide, without an obligation to respond to everyone, or maintain it forever. It really sucks that Google's business plan is totally cool with leaving some of us behind, but I'd rather take the risk that comes with the territory rather than not see these products get created in the first place due to onerous obligations.
- logicalmonster 4y ago
  If Google just offered no support for their free products, that would be one thing that might be a little understandable. But they even treat their customers for their paid products this way.
- cycomanic 4y ago
  > > The fact that you give something away at no charge (but actually make money or even if you don't make money) is not a reason you can then walk away and not have any responsibility at all for anything and everything. (Or shouldn't be). > I'm very sympathetic to OP's situation, I have also lost an account with years of irreplaceable emails to Google's finicky algorithms. But this right here is a slippery slope I would never wish for. Offering a free product should absolutely not entitle any random user to any kind of support. I should be able to release a product (whether open-source, free, or paid) and decide for myself and my business the level of support I want to provide, without an obligation to respond to everyone, or maintain it forever. I argue there is a big difference between giving something away as open source and giving something away and indirectly making money through e.g. advertising. For example if there are two game companies one makes a game that you have to pay for to play and the other makes money through in game ads, should they both not give the same support for their games? The users pay for them just in different ways.
  - gist 4y ago
    > I argue there is a big difference between giving something away as open source and giving something away and indirectly making money through e.g. advertising. True. But OP's reply misses the point which is 'causes pain'.
- Gibbon1 4y ago
  > Offering a free product should absolutely not entitle any random user to any kind of support. Quibble they aren't offering free 'products' they are offering free services. Offering free products is a anti-trust violation commonly referred to as dumping. Proper thing to do is extend antitrust to services.
masukomi 4y ago
> In part I want to agree with you because I get the same version of random calls but for different reasons. But the truth is the difference between what we (or anyone) is doing and what google is doing is google makes plenty of money that they can use to throw at the problem. This line of thinking is based on a fundamentally flawed view of google. In almost all cases, you are _not_ the customer. You are the product. A business does not provide service to it's product. The farmer does not provide counseling and custom beds for all of their cows. They make sure that overall the heard is healthy. They cull the old or the sick, and except for the monetary loss if one runs off or gets eaten (free range cattle) they generally don't care. You are not the customer. You are the cattle. You output useful data which google spends a lot of money collecting, and then turning around and selling to their customer: the adverstiser. They have a massive pile of money in no small part because they do not build massive service centers staffed with thousands of people who each need health care and computers. > 3) The solution for Google is really easy though: charge some fee for human support that keeps customer service requests to a manageable level. When it's a genuine issue, people will pay some fee to get an actual trained person to pay attention to and hopefully resolve. they already do this. Google's enterprise products do come with some level of support. Not saying it's "good" support, but this is an existing thing.
- gist 4y ago
  > This line of thinking is based on a fundamentally flawed view of google. In almost all cases, you are _not_ the customer. You are the product. A business does not provide service to it's product. Who is the product when a musician plays at an arena? Great you quoted a saying that came up post internet but that in no way absolves them of any behavior they might do. I can't believe in all seriousness you will compare people humans to either animals or 'products'. Absurd. > They have a massive pile of money in no small part because they do not build massive service centers staffed with thousands of people who each need health care and computers. No issue with people making money. And as I said doesn't matter if they make money or not anyway. The fact is you should not have a service free or otherwise that people use that causes as much anxiety and pain.

by gist 4y ago

romanhn 4y ago

> The fact that you give something away at no charge (but actually make money or even if you don't make money) is not a reason you can then walk away and not have any responsibility at all for anything and everything. (Or shouldn't be). I'm very sympathetic to OP's situation, I have also lost an account with years of irreplaceable emails to Google's finicky algorithms. But this right here is a slippery slope I would never wish for. Offering a free product should absolutely not entitle any random user to any kind of support. I should be able to release a product (whether open-source, free, or paid) and decide for myself and my business the level of support I want to provide, without an obligation to respond to everyone, or maintain it forever. It really sucks that Google's business plan is totally cool with leaving some of us behind, but I'd rather take the risk that comes with the territory rather than not see these products get created in the first place due to onerous obligations.

logicalmonster 4y ago
If Google just offered no support for their free products, that would be one thing that might be a little understandable. But they even treat their customers for their paid products this way.
cycomanic 4y ago
> > The fact that you give something away at no charge (but actually make money or even if you don't make money) is not a reason you can then walk away and not have any responsibility at all for anything and everything. (Or shouldn't be). > I'm very sympathetic to OP's situation, I have also lost an account with years of irreplaceable emails to Google's finicky algorithms. But this right here is a slippery slope I would never wish for. Offering a free product should absolutely not entitle any random user to any kind of support. I should be able to release a product (whether open-source, free, or paid) and decide for myself and my business the level of support I want to provide, without an obligation to respond to everyone, or maintain it forever. I argue there is a big difference between giving something away as open source and giving something away and indirectly making money through e.g. advertising. For example if there are two game companies one makes a game that you have to pay for to play and the other makes money through in game ads, should they both not give the same support for their games? The users pay for them just in different ways.
- gist 4y ago
  > I argue there is a big difference between giving something away as open source and giving something away and indirectly making money through e.g. advertising. True. But OP's reply misses the point which is 'causes pain'.
Gibbon1 4y ago
> Offering a free product should absolutely not entitle any random user to any kind of support. Quibble they aren't offering free 'products' they are offering free services. Offering free products is a anti-trust violation commonly referred to as dumping. Proper thing to do is extend antitrust to services.

masukomi 4y ago

> In part I want to agree with you because I get the same version of random calls but for different reasons. But the truth is the difference between what we (or anyone) is doing and what google is doing is google makes plenty of money that they can use to throw at the problem. This line of thinking is based on a fundamentally flawed view of google. In almost all cases, you are _not_ the customer. You are the product. A business does not provide service to it's product. The farmer does not provide counseling and custom beds for all of their cows. They make sure that overall the heard is healthy. They cull the old or the sick, and except for the monetary loss if one runs off or gets eaten (free range cattle) they generally don't care. You are not the customer. You are the cattle. You output useful data which google spends a lot of money collecting, and then turning around and selling to their customer: the adverstiser. They have a massive pile of money in no small part because they do not build massive service centers staffed with thousands of people who each need health care and computers. > 3) The solution for Google is really easy though: charge some fee for human support that keeps customer service requests to a manageable level. When it's a genuine issue, people will pay some fee to get an actual trained person to pay attention to and hopefully resolve. they already do this. Google's enterprise products do come with some level of support. Not saying it's "good" support, but this is an existing thing.

gist 4y ago
> This line of thinking is based on a fundamentally flawed view of google. In almost all cases, you are _not_ the customer. You are the product. A business does not provide service to it's product. Who is the product when a musician plays at an arena? Great you quoted a saying that came up post internet but that in no way absolves them of any behavior they might do. I can't believe in all seriousness you will compare people humans to either animals or 'products'. Absurd. > They have a massive pile of money in no small part because they do not build massive service centers staffed with thousands of people who each need health care and computers. No issue with people making money. And as I said doesn't matter if they make money or not anyway. The fact is you should not have a service free or otherwise that people use that causes as much anxiety and pain.