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> What part of it is a scam, if at no point users are required to put any money or buy anything to participate? That's not a convincing rebuttal. A scam with

> What part of it is a scam, if at no point users are required to put any money or buy anything to participate? That's not a convincing rebuttal. A scam with a "free-to-play" tier is still a scam. Lots of carnies will let you play their scam game for free a few times, letting you get into the game for free is a popular trick for scammers. With respect to Brave's thing specifically, it doesn't really seem like a scam to me. But I don't blame people for thinking it's a scam. If you reflexively call anything remotely related to cryptocurrencies a scam, you'll be right more often than not. It may not always be accurate 100% of the time, but it's a very good heuristic. If Brave wants to use a cryptocurrency and not be considered a scam, they have their work cut out for them. That's just the way it is.

rglullis 4y ago
The point is that there is no "game". You opt-in for the ads, you receive the notification, you get paid for it. There is no downside for the users. There could be a downside for the advertisers, if they were being forced to buy the token to place the ads, but even that is not possible, because the ad campaigns are priced and paid in USD.
- robonerd 4y ago
  I agree that Brave's thing is not a scam. Nevertheless, "all crypto is a scam" is a good rule of thumb that would do most people more good than harm. Generally speaking, I think people should be encouraged to think of all cryptocurrencies as scams. That's the advice I give to my family and any friends who ask.
  - rglullis 4y ago
    > I think people should be encouraged to think of all cryptocurrencies as scams. You are encouraging people to "think" something that you personally know not to be true. IOW, you are not encouraging them to "think" anything. You are just feeding them a conclusion, and you are spreading a lie. You might believe that is a white lie, but it's a lie nonetheless. Worse still, it's the type of lie that, if repeated often enough, damages all the reputation from honest people and destroys all chance of good work coming from the space. The lie becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. You can do better than that. I am not telling you to do a 180 in your opinion, or to support any crypto project in particular. But at the very least, stop feeding people with the conclusion and actually state the principles behind your reasoning. Heuristics and "rules of thumb" help when there is uncertainty and when there is risk associated with a decision, but before applying an heuristic you can and should remove as much uncertainty as possible.
    - robonerd 4y ago
      > You are encouraging people to "think" something that you personally know not to be true. I am encouraging people to think something I believe to be true 99.99% of the time. It's called a generalization, and it's normal. "Leave snakes alone." Most snakes aren't venomous, but some of them are. Just leave them all alone and you don't have to worry about which is which. Most snakes aren't venomous, but most cryptocurrencies are. Cryptocurrencies are much worse than snakes.
      - rglullis 4y ago
        > It's called a generalization, and it's normal. There is another word for it: prejudice. > Most snakes aren't venomous, but most cryptocurrencies are. Non-venomous snakes are not going to benefit from people touching them. There is no downside for the non-venomous snake if it is considered dangerous. It's actually an upside: lots of non-venomous snakes evolved to look like the dangerous ones because that gives them protection without forcing them to spend energy producing venom. This is not true for people working in cryptocurrencies. Honest people need to be recognized as honest. If they are lumped together with scammers, they can not do their job. It's bad for them, and it's bad for those could've benefited from their work, but were (wrongly) scared due to prejudice. You are not harming a snake by making a bad judgment call regarding its danger. You are harming honest people by making a bad judgment call over their work and their nature.
        smoldesu 4y ago
        At the same time, if Brave wants to market a browser while simultaneously promoting a technology that a huge amount of the populous dislikes, maybe they ought to review their priorities?
        rglullis 4y ago
        You don't win by listening your haters. You win by serving those who are aligned with your product. And it is working. 50M MAU and 100% YoY growth is nothing to sneeze at.

rglullis 4y ago

The point is that there is no "game". You opt-in for the ads, you receive the notification, you get paid for it. There is no downside for the users. There could be a downside for the advertisers, if they were being forced to buy the token to place the ads, but even that is not possible, because the ad campaigns are priced and paid in USD.

robonerd 4y ago
I agree that Brave's thing is not a scam. Nevertheless, "all crypto is a scam" is a good rule of thumb that would do most people more good than harm. Generally speaking, I think people should be encouraged to think of all cryptocurrencies as scams. That's the advice I give to my family and any friends who ask.
- rglullis 4y ago
  > I think people should be encouraged to think of all cryptocurrencies as scams. You are encouraging people to "think" something that you personally know not to be true. IOW, you are not encouraging them to "think" anything. You are just feeding them a conclusion, and you are spreading a lie. You might believe that is a white lie, but it's a lie nonetheless. Worse still, it's the type of lie that, if repeated often enough, damages all the reputation from honest people and destroys all chance of good work coming from the space. The lie becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. You can do better than that. I am not telling you to do a 180 in your opinion, or to support any crypto project in particular. But at the very least, stop feeding people with the conclusion and actually state the principles behind your reasoning. Heuristics and "rules of thumb" help when there is uncertainty and when there is risk associated with a decision, but before applying an heuristic you can and should remove as much uncertainty as possible.
  - robonerd 4y ago
    > You are encouraging people to "think" something that you personally know not to be true. I am encouraging people to think something I believe to be true 99.99% of the time. It's called a generalization, and it's normal. "Leave snakes alone." Most snakes aren't venomous, but some of them are. Just leave them all alone and you don't have to worry about which is which. Most snakes aren't venomous, but most cryptocurrencies are. Cryptocurrencies are much worse than snakes.
    - rglullis 4y ago
      > It's called a generalization, and it's normal. There is another word for it: prejudice. > Most snakes aren't venomous, but most cryptocurrencies are. Non-venomous snakes are not going to benefit from people touching them. There is no downside for the non-venomous snake if it is considered dangerous. It's actually an upside: lots of non-venomous snakes evolved to look like the dangerous ones because that gives them protection without forcing them to spend energy producing venom. This is not true for people working in cryptocurrencies. Honest people need to be recognized as honest. If they are lumped together with scammers, they can not do their job. It's bad for them, and it's bad for those could've benefited from their work, but were (wrongly) scared due to prejudice. You are not harming a snake by making a bad judgment call regarding its danger. You are harming honest people by making a bad judgment call over their work and their nature.
      - smoldesu 4y ago
        At the same time, if Brave wants to market a browser while simultaneously promoting a technology that a huge amount of the populous dislikes, maybe they ought to review their priorities?
        rglullis 4y ago
        You don't win by listening your haters. You win by serving those who are aligned with your product. And it is working. 50M MAU and 100% YoY growth is nothing to sneeze at.