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Does anybody find the constant promotion of Brave on HN annoying? Everytime I look at comments its the same handles who are also pro-crypto I can't take a brow

Does anybody find the constant promotion of Brave on HN annoying? Everytime I look at comments its the same handles who are also pro-crypto I can't take a browser serious when there are conflict of interset especially monetary ones in promoting it in public.

gnicholas 4y ago
I love Brave and have commented positively about my experience with it in the past. But I’ve never owned crypto, and I don’t comment on it much (or positively) on HN or elsewhere. Just an N = 1, but I imagine I’m not alone.
- kbelder 4y ago
  No, I'm in that boat with you. Crypto is pretty much a minor leftover relic of Brave's startup strategy, you don't need to touch it or deal with it. If I had to fuss with it, that would be a negative for Brave; but it's basically irrelevant.
  - dubswithus 4y ago
    > Crypto is pretty much a minor leftover relic of Brave's startup strategy How do you think Brave makes money?
    - dahfizz 4y ago
      Ads, same as every other internet company.
    - soundnote 4y ago
      By selling ads and services for normal money. The crypto is for the users to tip content creators with. Brave buys the crypto used to tip users with normal money ad revenue from the open market, as far as I know. That means the creators users gave tips inevitably have someone to sell their BAT to.
- wickedsickeune 4y ago
  I strongly dislike cryptocurrencies, but I love Brave. I don't follow news on it much though, so maybe it's because of ignorance?
GoblinSlayer 4y ago
>I can't take a browser serious when there are conflict of interset especially monetary ones in promoting it in public. What browsers do you think suffer from that?
- ziddoap 4y ago
  Just a wild guess based on their comment being negative about Brave, and that this is a topic about Brave Search... They might be referring to Brave.
  - hunterb123 4y ago
    He was hinting that GP should apply that same standard to other browsers and see how many are left. Brave is up front about how it's monetized. Browsers like FireFox that get their revenue from Google Search referrals, not so much. Only one browser recently has been serious about implementing protocols and features that are beneficial to the user, not companies. So while Chrome mulls blocking adblockers, Brave has one built in. How many other browsers have Tor, Webtorrent, ENS, IPFS support?
    - ziddoap 4y ago
      >Only one browser recently has been serious about implementing protocols and features that are beneficial to the user, not companies. Uhhh, do you just mean things that you specifically care about? Because I consider DNS-over-HTTPS, site isolation, multi-account containers, scipt-blocking, etc. all to be features that were beneficial to users. >How many other browsers have Tor, Webtorrent, ENS, IPFS support? I personally don't want Tor, Webtorrent, ENS, or IPFS to be in my browser, nor other cryptocurrency stuff to be near my browser. This is not as much of a selling point as you make it out to be, at least for some users. I'm not really for or against Brave, but you're presenting your argument as if it is fact; everything you said is entirely opinion.
      - hunterb123 4y ago
        > Uhhh, do you just mean things that you specifically care about? Because I consider DNS-over-HTTPS, site isolation, multi-account containers, scipt-blocking, etc. all to be features that were beneficial to users. I mean implementing ALL useful technologies, the ones you mentioned, the ones I mentioned, not just the ones that don't threaten the moat. There seems to be a pattern in the mainstream browsers to ignore the P2P tech for reasons ;) > I personally don't want Tor, Webtorrent, ENS, or IPFS to be in my browser, nor other cryptocurrency stuff to be near my browser. This is not as much of a selling point as you make it out to be, at least for some users. That's fine! But there are very valid use-cases for streaming torrents, for accessing onion sites, for ENS domain lookups, and accessing IPFS content. Just because you personally don't want or need them doesn't mean others don't. I'm glad Brave gives the option and ability to easily access these technologies. > I'm not really for or against Brave, but you're presenting your argument as if it is fact; everything you said is entirely opinion. I mainly annotated browser monetization & adblocking policies and listed tech in Brave not in other browsers. Please be specific on your criticism and I will address it.
capableweb 4y ago
> Does anybody find the constant promotion of Brave on HN annoying? Everytime I look at comments its the same handles who are also pro-crypto No, because I don't judge individual comments based on what handle is attached to it. If you make a shitty comment, it's a shitty comment no matter if you're pro/against cryptocurrencies. And if it's good, it's good, no matter previous stances.
- citizenkeen 4y ago
  But handles have value. It's why Hacker News has handles. So we can attach comments to them. If four people say "I love Brave! It's awesome", and those four people are: 1. A new user just registered today 2. A long-time user who mostly talks about the Linux kernel and SQL optimizations 3. A long-time user who mostly talks about privacy and the search engine market 4. A long-time user who mostly talks about crypto then that's four very different comments.
  - dubswithus 4y ago
    A lot of users post comments about Brave that are inaccurate. They haven't done their research because "crypto is a ponzi" and learning about crypto would make them complicit or something. Unfortunately, this sort of attitude makes you lazy and stupid. Obviously we can talk about the merits of Brave here and ignore the standard one liners.
zuminator 4y ago
Not really. I count about 19 stories about Brave in the past 30 days. Compare that with at minimum 33 stories related to just Google searches. That's not including non-search related threads about Chrome, Analytics, Maps, Alphabet etc. Otherwise it's hundreds of stories. I'm not a fan or user of Brave yet I don't consider a story every other day or so to be excessive.
assemblylang 4y ago
>Does anybody find the constant promotion of Brave on HN annoying? Yes, its extremely annoying, and I do not trust anyone saying positive things about Brave or its other product offerings. Brave is a shady company that: >puts profits over privacy >impersonates well known influencers to sell their products without their knowledge >constantly pushes their cryptocurrency, functionality completely unrelated to web browsing and of negative value to anyone caring about their privacy >their search results appear to be based off of google, despite claiming an independent index. all of your queries may just be going to google anyways >the browser frequently sends telemetry to their servers >they have consistently added more spyware to the browser unless users en masse call them out, which only happens some of the time I don't think for a second you are being downvoted by real hacker news users. Brave has created some sort of native marketing arm or something that drowns out any criticisms with vague positive comments like "I've been using brave search, more privacy and better search results than google!". Something is truly fishy about Brave, and I refuse to go anywhere near their products.
- ALittleLight 4y ago
  I use Brave. It's basically chrome with a built-in ad blocker. I have no experience of Brave "pushing" their cryptocurrency, which I don't use and not using it hasn't negatively impacted me in any way. I think I see an option for it on the "new tab" screen, but that's it. As for valuing profits over privacy - I was just reading an old Scott Alexander post on inconsistent rigor. Do you apply this standard to everything? You don't work with any company that values profits over privacy? Or, perhaps, when you dislike a company do you bring out strong criticism that would equally impeach almost every other company you do business with? Brave is a good browser and a decent search engine. I use the search about 60/40 with Google and I hope that grows over time. Since we're indulging in conspiracy theories here, I'll just throw out that mine is that you have ideological motives to dislike Brave and those motivate your criticism. Which is fine, I have ideological reasons to dislike Google, I just don't pretend that Google services are bad.
  - assemblylang 4y ago
    >Since we're indulging in conspiracy theories here Are you Brave's native marketing arm at work? When I open up wireshark and I see telemetry sent back to Brave after I open the browser, must be a conspiracy right? I find it funny that you did not even try to refute the points about them impersonating people to sell their products or the telemetry in their browser. You instead deflected into a combination of "whatabout-ism" and then say the same vague positive statements "Brave is a good browser and a decent search engine." I think Brave is shady, explain to me why they are not using technical merit. I will fully admit that I may not know all the facts, and I'm willing to hear you out, so explain why they impersonate people to sell their product. >Do you apply this standard to everything? Yes, if a company markets one thing, I expect them to deliver on that marketing promise. Brave markets privacy, and they do not deliver. >I'll just throw out that mine is that you have ideological motives to dislike Brave and those motivate your criticism. Explain further. What is my motivation here? That I'm tired of the Brave spam? That I want a browser that is actually private, like Librewolf or Ungoogled Chromium?
jacooper 4y ago
I use brave, and I have never cared about their crypto stuff. Its probably most of brave's users, as crypto is disabled by default.
mrweasel 4y ago
Honestly no. As I wrote in another comment I don't trust Brave, but I do like to follow along with their progress. Also it's nice to see that there a products out there that are trying new things and that they have people who are passionate about them. You could ask the same question in respect to something like VSCode, Github or Kubernetes. It's fine, just skip the news and comments about stuff you don't care about.
dzdt 4y ago
I think there is a high interest factor on HN for competitors to google search. Brave isn't the only one that comes up. Some combination of google being frustrating for power users, increasingly evil in moral alignment, and obnoxiosly dominant in its role makes competition an interesting topic here.
stjohnswarts 4y ago
I don't. I see just as much about other popular pieces of software (chrome, firefox, gcc, etc)
indymike 4y ago
> Does anybody find the constant promotion of Brave on HN annoying? Sometimes it is, but in this case it's actually an hacker newsworthy innovation. > Everytime I look at comments its the same handles who are also pro-crypto I'm 100% not into crypto. I don't like it's environmental impact and I'm not sure it will hold value long term. That said, it is an area where a lot of really smart people are trying to solve big problems... and maybe something of great utility will emerge. > I can't take a browser serious when there are conflict of interset especially monetary ones in promoting it in public I'm not sure what you mean here. Brave makes money by doing something other than either asking for donations (Mozilla), advertising (Mozilla, Chrome) or selling your data to whoever (lots of smaller browser companies)? Brave's interest in Crypto is a little strange, but the have made a great product, they are actively innovating, and their browser is really a better chrome than the original.
- soundnote 4y ago
  > Brave makes money by doing something other than either asking for donations (Mozilla), advertising (Mozilla, Chrome) or selling your data to whoever (lots of smaller browser companies)? That's not correct. Brave is explicitly an advertising company. Their whole schtick is that they nuke nasty ads that track you, and fund their projects with revenue from ads they serve via separate channels that don't track you.
soundnote 4y ago
I mostly see people raging against Brave, not shilling for crypto. One of the main reasons I post in these threads is a bunch of unhinged stuff people spout nonstop that hasn't matched my experience using the browser at all. I pretty much just use it as a Chromium with better defaults and like that they're building their own search index. The tipping system seems interesting but I haven't bothered with it thus far. It's just a good browser, IME, from a team that understands their job is to make a good tool.

gnicholas 4y ago

I love Brave and have commented positively about my experience with it in the past. But I’ve never owned crypto, and I don’t comment on it much (or positively) on HN or elsewhere. Just an N = 1, but I imagine I’m not alone.

kbelder 4y ago
No, I'm in that boat with you. Crypto is pretty much a minor leftover relic of Brave's startup strategy, you don't need to touch it or deal with it. If I had to fuss with it, that would be a negative for Brave; but it's basically irrelevant.
- dubswithus 4y ago
  > Crypto is pretty much a minor leftover relic of Brave's startup strategy How do you think Brave makes money?
  - dahfizz 4y ago
    Ads, same as every other internet company.
  - soundnote 4y ago
    By selling ads and services for normal money. The crypto is for the users to tip content creators with. Brave buys the crypto used to tip users with normal money ad revenue from the open market, as far as I know. That means the creators users gave tips inevitably have someone to sell their BAT to.
wickedsickeune 4y ago
I strongly dislike cryptocurrencies, but I love Brave. I don't follow news on it much though, so maybe it's because of ignorance?

GoblinSlayer 4y ago

>I can't take a browser serious when there are conflict of interset especially monetary ones in promoting it in public. What browsers do you think suffer from that?

ziddoap 4y ago
Just a wild guess based on their comment being negative about Brave, and that this is a topic about Brave Search... They might be referring to Brave.
- hunterb123 4y ago
  He was hinting that GP should apply that same standard to other browsers and see how many are left. Brave is up front about how it's monetized. Browsers like FireFox that get their revenue from Google Search referrals, not so much. Only one browser recently has been serious about implementing protocols and features that are beneficial to the user, not companies. So while Chrome mulls blocking adblockers, Brave has one built in. How many other browsers have Tor, Webtorrent, ENS, IPFS support?
  - ziddoap 4y ago
    >Only one browser recently has been serious about implementing protocols and features that are beneficial to the user, not companies. Uhhh, do you just mean things that you specifically care about? Because I consider DNS-over-HTTPS, site isolation, multi-account containers, scipt-blocking, etc. all to be features that were beneficial to users. >How many other browsers have Tor, Webtorrent, ENS, IPFS support? I personally don't want Tor, Webtorrent, ENS, or IPFS to be in my browser, nor other cryptocurrency stuff to be near my browser. This is not as much of a selling point as you make it out to be, at least for some users. I'm not really for or against Brave, but you're presenting your argument as if it is fact; everything you said is entirely opinion.
    - hunterb123 4y ago
      > Uhhh, do you just mean things that you specifically care about? Because I consider DNS-over-HTTPS, site isolation, multi-account containers, scipt-blocking, etc. all to be features that were beneficial to users. I mean implementing ALL useful technologies, the ones you mentioned, the ones I mentioned, not just the ones that don't threaten the moat. There seems to be a pattern in the mainstream browsers to ignore the P2P tech for reasons ;) > I personally don't want Tor, Webtorrent, ENS, or IPFS to be in my browser, nor other cryptocurrency stuff to be near my browser. This is not as much of a selling point as you make it out to be, at least for some users. That's fine! But there are very valid use-cases for streaming torrents, for accessing onion sites, for ENS domain lookups, and accessing IPFS content. Just because you personally don't want or need them doesn't mean others don't. I'm glad Brave gives the option and ability to easily access these technologies. > I'm not really for or against Brave, but you're presenting your argument as if it is fact; everything you said is entirely opinion. I mainly annotated browser monetization & adblocking policies and listed tech in Brave not in other browsers. Please be specific on your criticism and I will address it.

capableweb 4y ago

> Does anybody find the constant promotion of Brave on HN annoying? Everytime I look at comments its the same handles who are also pro-crypto No, because I don't judge individual comments based on what handle is attached to it. If you make a shitty comment, it's a shitty comment no matter if you're pro/against cryptocurrencies. And if it's good, it's good, no matter previous stances.

citizenkeen 4y ago
But handles have value. It's why Hacker News has handles. So we can attach comments to them. If four people say "I love Brave! It's awesome", and those four people are: 1. A new user just registered today 2. A long-time user who mostly talks about the Linux kernel and SQL optimizations 3. A long-time user who mostly talks about privacy and the search engine market 4. A long-time user who mostly talks about crypto then that's four very different comments.
- dubswithus 4y ago
  A lot of users post comments about Brave that are inaccurate. They haven't done their research because "crypto is a ponzi" and learning about crypto would make them complicit or something. Unfortunately, this sort of attitude makes you lazy and stupid. Obviously we can talk about the merits of Brave here and ignore the standard one liners.

zuminator 4y ago

Not really. I count about 19 stories about Brave in the past 30 days. Compare that with at minimum 33 stories related to just Google searches. That's not including non-search related threads about Chrome, Analytics, Maps, Alphabet etc. Otherwise it's hundreds of stories. I'm not a fan or user of Brave yet I don't consider a story every other day or so to be excessive.

assemblylang 4y ago

>Does anybody find the constant promotion of Brave on HN annoying? Yes, its extremely annoying, and I do not trust anyone saying positive things about Brave or its other product offerings. Brave is a shady company that: >puts profits over privacy >impersonates well known influencers to sell their products without their knowledge >constantly pushes their cryptocurrency, functionality completely unrelated to web browsing and of negative value to anyone caring about their privacy >their search results appear to be based off of google, despite claiming an independent index. all of your queries may just be going to google anyways >the browser frequently sends telemetry to their servers >they have consistently added more spyware to the browser unless users en masse call them out, which only happens some of the time I don't think for a second you are being downvoted by real hacker news users. Brave has created some sort of native marketing arm or something that drowns out any criticisms with vague positive comments like "I've been using brave search, more privacy and better search results than google!". Something is truly fishy about Brave, and I refuse to go anywhere near their products.

ALittleLight 4y ago
I use Brave. It's basically chrome with a built-in ad blocker. I have no experience of Brave "pushing" their cryptocurrency, which I don't use and not using it hasn't negatively impacted me in any way. I think I see an option for it on the "new tab" screen, but that's it. As for valuing profits over privacy - I was just reading an old Scott Alexander post on inconsistent rigor. Do you apply this standard to everything? You don't work with any company that values profits over privacy? Or, perhaps, when you dislike a company do you bring out strong criticism that would equally impeach almost every other company you do business with? Brave is a good browser and a decent search engine. I use the search about 60/40 with Google and I hope that grows over time. Since we're indulging in conspiracy theories here, I'll just throw out that mine is that you have ideological motives to dislike Brave and those motivate your criticism. Which is fine, I have ideological reasons to dislike Google, I just don't pretend that Google services are bad.
- assemblylang 4y ago
  >Since we're indulging in conspiracy theories here Are you Brave's native marketing arm at work? When I open up wireshark and I see telemetry sent back to Brave after I open the browser, must be a conspiracy right? I find it funny that you did not even try to refute the points about them impersonating people to sell their products or the telemetry in their browser. You instead deflected into a combination of "whatabout-ism" and then say the same vague positive statements "Brave is a good browser and a decent search engine." I think Brave is shady, explain to me why they are not using technical merit. I will fully admit that I may not know all the facts, and I'm willing to hear you out, so explain why they impersonate people to sell their product. >Do you apply this standard to everything? Yes, if a company markets one thing, I expect them to deliver on that marketing promise. Brave markets privacy, and they do not deliver. >I'll just throw out that mine is that you have ideological motives to dislike Brave and those motivate your criticism. Explain further. What is my motivation here? That I'm tired of the Brave spam? That I want a browser that is actually private, like Librewolf or Ungoogled Chromium?

jacooper 4y ago

I use brave, and I have never cared about their crypto stuff. Its probably most of brave's users, as crypto is disabled by default.

mrweasel 4y ago

Honestly no. As I wrote in another comment I don't trust Brave, but I do like to follow along with their progress. Also it's nice to see that there a products out there that are trying new things and that they have people who are passionate about them. You could ask the same question in respect to something like VSCode, Github or Kubernetes. It's fine, just skip the news and comments about stuff you don't care about.

dzdt 4y ago

I think there is a high interest factor on HN for competitors to google search. Brave isn't the only one that comes up. Some combination of google being frustrating for power users, increasingly evil in moral alignment, and obnoxiosly dominant in its role makes competition an interesting topic here.

stjohnswarts 4y ago

I don't. I see just as much about other popular pieces of software (chrome, firefox, gcc, etc)

indymike 4y ago

> Does anybody find the constant promotion of Brave on HN annoying? Sometimes it is, but in this case it's actually an hacker newsworthy innovation. > Everytime I look at comments its the same handles who are also pro-crypto I'm 100% not into crypto. I don't like it's environmental impact and I'm not sure it will hold value long term. That said, it is an area where a lot of really smart people are trying to solve big problems... and maybe something of great utility will emerge. > I can't take a browser serious when there are conflict of interset especially monetary ones in promoting it in public I'm not sure what you mean here. Brave makes money by doing something other than either asking for donations (Mozilla), advertising (Mozilla, Chrome) or selling your data to whoever (lots of smaller browser companies)? Brave's interest in Crypto is a little strange, but the have made a great product, they are actively innovating, and their browser is really a better chrome than the original.

soundnote 4y ago
> Brave makes money by doing something other than either asking for donations (Mozilla), advertising (Mozilla, Chrome) or selling your data to whoever (lots of smaller browser companies)? That's not correct. Brave is explicitly an advertising company. Their whole schtick is that they nuke nasty ads that track you, and fund their projects with revenue from ads they serve via separate channels that don't track you.

soundnote 4y ago

I mostly see people raging against Brave, not shilling for crypto. One of the main reasons I post in these threads is a bunch of unhinged stuff people spout nonstop that hasn't matched my experience using the browser at all. I pretty much just use it as a Chromium with better defaults and like that they're building their own search index. The tipping system seems interesting but I haven't bothered with it thus far. It's just a good browser, IME, from a team that understands their job is to make a good tool.