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Since it's a database system it competes with Oracle's paid offerings and anyone aware of this conflict of interest has been waiting for them to hobble the prod

Since it's a database system it competes with Oracle's paid offerings and anyone aware of this conflict of interest has been waiting for them to hobble the product. Now there is Mysql "enterprise edition" and "community edition" - but paying can open you to a license audit from Oracle. Savvy people just use MariaDB and avoid the whole mess.

rlpb 4y ago
I'm responding to a claim of "The whole OOo, mysqL, OEL junket...", and all you've got is to accuse Oracle of what they might do in the future? It's fine to hold a negative opinion of them because of what they might do, but I don't think it's fine to use MySQL as an example of something bad they've done already...because, as far as I can tell, they haven't. > Savvy people just use MariaDB and avoid the whole mess. I'll ask again: what mess?
- mewse-hn 4y ago
  > what mess? I just described it to you?
- b112 4y ago
  A few years back, Oracle created OEL, that is, Oracle Enterprise Linux. However all they did was to effectively clone Redhat's src rpms/repos, and call it a day. Later, as their stuff was 100% identical, they just used redhat's rpms for security updates. Essentially, one paid corp contributing not a single thing, and completely and totally leeching off of redhat. Redhat, whom they wanted to take market share from. The next step was to aggressively market OEL, and of course claim that it was better. Of course Redhat did a sensible thing, and moved its security patches behind a wall, and required a subscription to get them. Subscriptions were free, but the terms meant Oracle couldn't just copy them. And of course, Oracle couldn't tell people to use Redhat's url/servers for updates on the OS they claim to have "created". Bad image, and all that. Angry at the idea of having to manage their own security updates, and you know, do actual work, Oracle hid all security patches, and security update info for mysql. This made it impossible for not just Redhat, but everyone (eg, debian) to backport security fixes. And there is no equivalency here in Oracle's response. After all, Redhat security updates were created by bug reports about CVEs, and patches in software (eg, a ssh or apache patch), which Oracle could easily obtain and do themselves. Instead, Oracle stopped communicating specifics about security issues, and providing any patches for security updates, purposefully obscuring security fixes in massive single patches, with loads of other fixes and changes. This is the reason the entire open source community embraced mariadb, everyone had no choice. It is also the reason redhat threw money at centos, and essentially bought them. This allowed them to give security updates to centos directly. All this because Oracle threw a temper tantrum, at not being able to build an entire OS, for free, and leech off of the company they wanted to take market share from. Oracle is rotten through and through, pure scum.
  - rascul 4y ago
    I wonder if there might be an article somewhere so that I could read more about this.
  - rlpb 4y ago
    Still, none of this relates to MySQL. You can create a list of things you aren't happy about Oracle for. MySQL isn't one of them.
    - b112 4y ago
      Making it very difficult for people to manage deploying mysql, as well as making it hard for security researchers to audit change, and security updates, is a real problem. But that's oracle for you. Buy something, mismanage it, lose market share like crazy, the only plus is, it is amusing to watch them fumble about I guess. They basically bought something, then lost 99% of their market share. Essentially every linix distro dropped mysql. It is gone from redhat, gone from debian and all derivatives. Mariadb, Monty or not, was just a startup when all this happened. They literally handed Monty billions on value. Pathetic. Meanwhile, so many changes in MySQL weren't even from Oracle after they bought it. Loads of stuff came from Percona. Massive code for 5.6. Oracle makes Facebook look like a model citizen.
      - rlpb 4y ago
        > Making it very difficult for people to manage deploying mysql... How so? You can download source "from upstream" https://dev.mysql.com/downloads/mysql/8.0.html?os=src https://dev.mysql.com/downloads/mysql/8.0.html?os=src or enable their apt repository from https://dev.mysql.com/doc/mysql-apt-repo-quick-guide/en/ https://dev.mysql.com/doc/mysql-apt-repo-quick-guide/en/. This is pretty much what every upstream does. > Essentially every linix distro dropped mysql. It is gone from redhat, gone from debian and all derivatives. False. It's available in Ubuntu in the usual way. "apt install mysql-server" is all you need. Most of Ubuntu builds against MySQL, not MariaDB. MariaDB is also available. As for the others, being removed from other distributions is hardly Oracle's doing. > Meanwhile, so many changes in MySQL weren't even from Oracle after they bought it. Loads of stuff came from Percona. Massive code for 5.6. I don't think this is true. For example, the replication in MySQL 8.0 is unique to MySQL. Many changes fix dubious design decisions from previous releases. Every release seems to be full of old ambigious or poorly engineered stuff being deprecated or removed. It seems to me that you dislike Oracle because of what they did with other products, and are mistakenly blaming Oracle for mistreating MySQL but can't actually point to any MySQL specifics here. Please don't make your argument circular. If you don't want to touch MySQL because of other things that Oracle have done, then that's your choice. But putting MySQL itself in the list of things that Oracle is doing wrong doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
- csours 4y ago
  Oracle acquired MySQL in 2010 when it bought Sun. It has played stupid games in the intervening time.

rlpb 4y ago

I'm responding to a claim of "The whole OOo, mysqL, OEL junket...", and all you've got is to accuse Oracle of what they might do in the future? It's fine to hold a negative opinion of them because of what they might do, but I don't think it's fine to use MySQL as an example of something bad they've done already...because, as far as I can tell, they haven't. > Savvy people just use MariaDB and avoid the whole mess. I'll ask again: what mess?

mewse-hn 4y ago
> what mess? I just described it to you?
b112 4y ago
A few years back, Oracle created OEL, that is, Oracle Enterprise Linux. However all they did was to effectively clone Redhat's src rpms/repos, and call it a day. Later, as their stuff was 100% identical, they just used redhat's rpms for security updates. Essentially, one paid corp contributing not a single thing, and completely and totally leeching off of redhat. Redhat, whom they wanted to take market share from. The next step was to aggressively market OEL, and of course claim that it was better. Of course Redhat did a sensible thing, and moved its security patches behind a wall, and required a subscription to get them. Subscriptions were free, but the terms meant Oracle couldn't just copy them. And of course, Oracle couldn't tell people to use Redhat's url/servers for updates on the OS they claim to have "created". Bad image, and all that. Angry at the idea of having to manage their own security updates, and you know, do actual work, Oracle hid all security patches, and security update info for mysql. This made it impossible for not just Redhat, but everyone (eg, debian) to backport security fixes. And there is no equivalency here in Oracle's response. After all, Redhat security updates were created by bug reports about CVEs, and patches in software (eg, a ssh or apache patch), which Oracle could easily obtain and do themselves. Instead, Oracle stopped communicating specifics about security issues, and providing any patches for security updates, purposefully obscuring security fixes in massive single patches, with loads of other fixes and changes. This is the reason the entire open source community embraced mariadb, everyone had no choice. It is also the reason redhat threw money at centos, and essentially bought them. This allowed them to give security updates to centos directly. All this because Oracle threw a temper tantrum, at not being able to build an entire OS, for free, and leech off of the company they wanted to take market share from. Oracle is rotten through and through, pure scum.
- rascul 4y ago
  I wonder if there might be an article somewhere so that I could read more about this.
- rlpb 4y ago
  Still, none of this relates to MySQL. You can create a list of things you aren't happy about Oracle for. MySQL isn't one of them.
  - b112 4y ago
    Making it very difficult for people to manage deploying mysql, as well as making it hard for security researchers to audit change, and security updates, is a real problem. But that's oracle for you. Buy something, mismanage it, lose market share like crazy, the only plus is, it is amusing to watch them fumble about I guess. They basically bought something, then lost 99% of their market share. Essentially every linix distro dropped mysql. It is gone from redhat, gone from debian and all derivatives. Mariadb, Monty or not, was just a startup when all this happened. They literally handed Monty billions on value. Pathetic. Meanwhile, so many changes in MySQL weren't even from Oracle after they bought it. Loads of stuff came from Percona. Massive code for 5.6. Oracle makes Facebook look like a model citizen.
    - rlpb 4y ago
      > Making it very difficult for people to manage deploying mysql... How so? You can download source "from upstream" https://dev.mysql.com/downloads/mysql/8.0.html?os=src https://dev.mysql.com/downloads/mysql/8.0.html?os=src or enable their apt repository from https://dev.mysql.com/doc/mysql-apt-repo-quick-guide/en/ https://dev.mysql.com/doc/mysql-apt-repo-quick-guide/en/. This is pretty much what every upstream does. > Essentially every linix distro dropped mysql. It is gone from redhat, gone from debian and all derivatives. False. It's available in Ubuntu in the usual way. "apt install mysql-server" is all you need. Most of Ubuntu builds against MySQL, not MariaDB. MariaDB is also available. As for the others, being removed from other distributions is hardly Oracle's doing. > Meanwhile, so many changes in MySQL weren't even from Oracle after they bought it. Loads of stuff came from Percona. Massive code for 5.6. I don't think this is true. For example, the replication in MySQL 8.0 is unique to MySQL. Many changes fix dubious design decisions from previous releases. Every release seems to be full of old ambigious or poorly engineered stuff being deprecated or removed. It seems to me that you dislike Oracle because of what they did with other products, and are mistakenly blaming Oracle for mistreating MySQL but can't actually point to any MySQL specifics here. Please don't make your argument circular. If you don't want to touch MySQL because of other things that Oracle have done, then that's your choice. But putting MySQL itself in the list of things that Oracle is doing wrong doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
csours 4y ago
Oracle acquired MySQL in 2010 when it bought Sun. It has played stupid games in the intervening time.