4 ms·

That's all government has ever been and will always be: a protection racket.

r721 4y ago
But in a "no-government world" protection racket will still exist, just without any restrictions at all.
jsiaajdsdaa 4y ago
you're saying the quiet part out loud... it's supposed to be the arbiter of civil rights, fairness, and enablement, with the convenient side effect of enriching a very small group of people who actually pull the strings
- ginjas 4y ago
  >it's supposed to be the arbiter of civil rights, fairness, and enablement, with the convenient side effect of enriching a very small group of people who actually pull the strings so the ends justify the means? Even the premise is wrong
  - marcinzm 4y ago
    Name a system that doesn't enrich a small group of people when actually implemented in real life. So yeah you pick the least bad of the options you have. edit: That also includes being stable against competing systems. A utopia that is conquered in 5 minutes and replaced with a dystopia is not a utopia.
    - ginjas 4y ago
      Imo let's be real, drop the pretension. I'd rather we get off the notion that these things are possible. I.e. we are ruled by smart people (aristocracy), that enrich themselves, but that are smart and have skin in the game. Rather than dumb (and impressionable) collective deciding in a popularity contest, probably _extremely_ influenced by a 3rd party (media), pretending it's fulfilling its duty, while it's actually falling in some 'cool' 'wolf's' song, that only accomplishes short term gains, while mortgaging our future. Just drop the pretension. Edit: maybe I'm schizo-ranting, but in my opinion, this is a very sober/hyperconscious perspective, that should be had by everyone. Not this Plato's Cave bs, that we live in a 'free democracy' where nobody questions status quo, except a minority of right-left non-npc people.
tablespoon 4y ago
> That's all government has ever been and will always be: a protection racket. Eh, no. I think it's usually an indication of sloppy thinking when someone makes sweepingly absolute statements about vague, abstract concepts with numerous and important differences in implementation.
- robertlagrant 4y ago
  Let's hope it's not an indication of sloppy thinking in this case!
kingkawn 4y ago
Protection against rampaging business people, warlords, and run of the mill monsters.
streb-lo 4y ago
> a protection racket. A racket implies they're 'protecting' you from themselves. I don't think that's true. If protection isn't important to you, you can give Somalia a try.
- Quinner 4y ago
  Have you tried not paying taxes?
- LAC-Tech 4y ago
  Somalia has a government.
  - FredPret 4y ago
    On paper, not in practice
    - LAC-Tech 4y ago
      The "Stateless" period of Somalia ended over 15 years ago - even there were various authorities that acted as a de-facto government of certain parts of it. Unlike most of HN I'm not an expert on modern Somalian politics - could you describe more about how Somalias current central government only exists on paper?
  - cbozeman 4y ago
    In the same way that North Korea is the "Democratic People's" Republic of Korea.
    - FredPret 4y ago
      Or Democratic Republic of the Congo. Only “Congo” is accurate.
- calvinmorrison 4y ago
usrusr 4y ago
It's not a racket when it's consistently better than the alternative.
DubiousPusher 4y ago
In the European tradition, the number 1 thing government protects is private property. There's a reason that deeds are recorded with the county amd that you must pay tax on real estate and that these are fundamental things local government does in even in the most backwater province where they may not even have a library system.
- tablespoon 4y ago
  >> That's all government has ever been and will always be: a protection racket. > In the European tradition, the number 1 thing government protects is private property. There's a reason that deeds are recorded with the county amd that you must pay tax on real estate and that these are fundamental things local government does in even in the most backwater province where they may not even have a library system. Most (but not all) people who make sweeping statements like the GP's are ideological capitalists, but capitalism fails without the government record-keeping and enforcement systems you bring up: https://www.amazon.com/Mystery-Capital-Capitalism-Triumphs-Everywhere/dp/0465016154 https://www.amazon.com/Mystery-Capital-Capitalism-Triumphs-E...
  - DubiousPusher 4y ago
    I will definitely give this a read. This is an idea I happened upon and have developed informally so it will be very interesting to read someone who has codified it a bit. It's interesting to me that casual civics and history instruction spends so much time on the bill of rights, democracy, etc and yet the system of "private property" which to my eye appears even more fundamental than our constitution to how things work in our society is taken for granted.

r721 4y ago

But in a "no-government world" protection racket will still exist, just without any restrictions at all.

you're saying the quiet part out loud... it's supposed to be the arbiter of civil rights, fairness, and enablement, with the convenient side effect of enriching a very small group of people who actually pull the strings

ginjas 4y ago
>it's supposed to be the arbiter of civil rights, fairness, and enablement, with the convenient side effect of enriching a very small group of people who actually pull the strings so the ends justify the means? Even the premise is wrong
- marcinzm 4y ago
  Name a system that doesn't enrich a small group of people when actually implemented in real life. So yeah you pick the least bad of the options you have. edit: That also includes being stable against competing systems. A utopia that is conquered in 5 minutes and replaced with a dystopia is not a utopia.
  - ginjas 4y ago
    Imo let's be real, drop the pretension. I'd rather we get off the notion that these things are possible. I.e. we are ruled by smart people (aristocracy), that enrich themselves, but that are smart and have skin in the game. Rather than dumb (and impressionable) collective deciding in a popularity contest, probably _extremely_ influenced by a 3rd party (media), pretending it's fulfilling its duty, while it's actually falling in some 'cool' 'wolf's' song, that only accomplishes short term gains, while mortgaging our future. Just drop the pretension. Edit: maybe I'm schizo-ranting, but in my opinion, this is a very sober/hyperconscious perspective, that should be had by everyone. Not this Plato's Cave bs, that we live in a 'free democracy' where nobody questions status quo, except a minority of right-left non-npc people.

tablespoon 4y ago

> That's all government has ever been and will always be: a protection racket. Eh, no. I think it's usually an indication of sloppy thinking when someone makes sweepingly absolute statements about vague, abstract concepts with numerous and important differences in implementation.

robertlagrant 4y ago
Let's hope it's not an indication of sloppy thinking in this case!

kingkawn 4y ago

Protection against rampaging business people, warlords, and run of the mill monsters.

streb-lo 4y ago

> a protection racket. A racket implies they're 'protecting' you from themselves. I don't think that's true. If protection isn't important to you, you can give Somalia a try.

Quinner 4y ago
Have you tried not paying taxes?
LAC-Tech 4y ago
Somalia has a government.
- FredPret 4y ago
  On paper, not in practice
  - LAC-Tech 4y ago
    The "Stateless" period of Somalia ended over 15 years ago - even there were various authorities that acted as a de-facto government of certain parts of it. Unlike most of HN I'm not an expert on modern Somalian politics - could you describe more about how Somalias current central government only exists on paper?
- cbozeman 4y ago
  In the same way that North Korea is the "Democratic People's" Republic of Korea.
  - FredPret 4y ago
    Or Democratic Republic of the Congo. Only “Congo” is accurate.
calvinmorrison 4y ago

usrusr 4y ago

It's not a racket when it's consistently better than the alternative.

DubiousPusher 4y ago

In the European tradition, the number 1 thing government protects is private property. There's a reason that deeds are recorded with the county amd that you must pay tax on real estate and that these are fundamental things local government does in even in the most backwater province where they may not even have a library system.

tablespoon 4y ago
>> That's all government has ever been and will always be: a protection racket. > In the European tradition, the number 1 thing government protects is private property. There's a reason that deeds are recorded with the county amd that you must pay tax on real estate and that these are fundamental things local government does in even in the most backwater province where they may not even have a library system. Most (but not all) people who make sweeping statements like the GP's are ideological capitalists, but capitalism fails without the government record-keeping and enforcement systems you bring up: https://www.amazon.com/Mystery-Capital-Capitalism-Triumphs-Everywhere/dp/0465016154 https://www.amazon.com/Mystery-Capital-Capitalism-Triumphs-E...
- DubiousPusher 4y ago
  I will definitely give this a read. This is an idea I happened upon and have developed informally so it will be very interesting to read someone who has codified it a bit. It's interesting to me that casual civics and history instruction spends so much time on the bill of rights, democracy, etc and yet the system of "private property" which to my eye appears even more fundamental than our constitution to how things work in our society is taken for granted.