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Solar and wind will always suffer from a storage problem. The key to modern power is not potential but throughput and consistency. Modern infrastructure needs

Solar and wind will always suffer from a storage problem. The key to modern power is not potential but throughput and consistency. Modern infrastructure needs x Watts delivered 24/7, shifting to y Watts during on-peak hours and z Watts during off-peak hours. Because of inconsistency, solar and wind will remain non-viable as a primary source of power.

pfdietz 4y ago
Making solar and wind consistent with various kinds of storage is likely going to be more economical than producing said energy with nuclear power plants. As for comparison to natural gas and such, CO2 taxes will be increased until those are phased out. Still economical? Taxes will be raised until they aren't. We have to leave most of the carbon in the ground.
- nightski 4y ago
  Economical is one thing, but what about sustainability? Isn't nuclear more sustainable in that it produces less overall waste?
  - raxxorraxor 4y ago
    Nuclear does create waste and that problem is not solved contrary to popular belief.
  - pfdietz 4y ago
    The waste produced by a renewable energy system will be small (and of the same kind) compared to the waste produced by industrial society as a whole. If the renewable energy system isn't sustainable because of waste, then neither will be that industrial society, even if it were nuclear powered. To be fair, waste isn't really the issue with nuclear power either.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - 77pt77 4y ago
      > waste isn't really the issue with nuclear power either. So what is? Because you're working overtime here against it without giving any reasons whatsoever.
      - pfdietz 4y ago
        > So what is? Cost. It's the reason few nuclear plants are being built. No other reason is needed.
        nightski 4y ago
        I'm not buying that all the solar panels, batteries, and grid infrastructure will produce little waste. Do you have any references to studies this or are you just going by gut feeling?
        pfdietz 4y ago
        What specific waste is causing your trepidation? Solar and wind have most of their impact from mundane things like glass, aluminum, and steel. But enormous amounts of these are produced for the rest of the economy (annual world production of steel is nearly 2 gigatonnes). None of them present an insuperable obstacle to a global economy that could function indefinitely.
        raxxorraxor 4y ago
        Last year we had the first ever permanent storage open. If it really opened, perhaps it was delayed again. Because storing nuclear waste long term is not a solved problem aside from the fact that uranium isn't endless either. Deconstructed nuclear plants also need to be cleaned up.
thehappypm 4y ago
I disagree with this premise. Wind and solar will provide cheap power at times, extremely cheap at times when the production outstrips demand. It’s a simple and easy business model to buy this cheap power and sell it back to the grid at times of high demand. Buy some batteries, then buy low and sell high electricity. Bam, grid evened out by the invisible hand.

pfdietz 4y ago

Making solar and wind consistent with various kinds of storage is likely going to be more economical than producing said energy with nuclear power plants. As for comparison to natural gas and such, CO2 taxes will be increased until those are phased out. Still economical? Taxes will be raised until they aren't. We have to leave most of the carbon in the ground.

nightski 4y ago
Economical is one thing, but what about sustainability? Isn't nuclear more sustainable in that it produces less overall waste?
- raxxorraxor 4y ago
  Nuclear does create waste and that problem is not solved contrary to popular belief.
- pfdietz 4y ago
  The waste produced by a renewable energy system will be small (and of the same kind) compared to the waste produced by industrial society as a whole. If the renewable energy system isn't sustainable because of waste, then neither will be that industrial society, even if it were nuclear powered. To be fair, waste isn't really the issue with nuclear power either.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - 77pt77 4y ago
    > waste isn't really the issue with nuclear power either. So what is? Because you're working overtime here against it without giving any reasons whatsoever.
    - pfdietz 4y ago
      > So what is? Cost. It's the reason few nuclear plants are being built. No other reason is needed.
      - nightski 4y ago
        I'm not buying that all the solar panels, batteries, and grid infrastructure will produce little waste. Do you have any references to studies this or are you just going by gut feeling?
        pfdietz 4y ago
        What specific waste is causing your trepidation? Solar and wind have most of their impact from mundane things like glass, aluminum, and steel. But enormous amounts of these are produced for the rest of the economy (annual world production of steel is nearly 2 gigatonnes). None of them present an insuperable obstacle to a global economy that could function indefinitely.
        raxxorraxor 4y ago
        Last year we had the first ever permanent storage open. If it really opened, perhaps it was delayed again. Because storing nuclear waste long term is not a solved problem aside from the fact that uranium isn't endless either. Deconstructed nuclear plants also need to be cleaned up.

thehappypm 4y ago

I disagree with this premise. Wind and solar will provide cheap power at times, extremely cheap at times when the production outstrips demand. It’s a simple and easy business model to buy this cheap power and sell it back to the grid at times of high demand. Buy some batteries, then buy low and sell high electricity. Bam, grid evened out by the invisible hand.