6 ms·

Apache has a few good projects and so much abandonware it’s very difficult to know which to avoid entirely. At this point I think Apache has about 15 different

Apache has a few good projects and so much abandonware it’s very difficult to know which to avoid entirely. At this point I think Apache has about 15 different data streaming/queueing/event processing systems.

eikenberry 4y ago
I've learned over the last decade or so just to avoid Apache software. It seems like the vast majority of their software is poorly written, enterprise abandonware. They are a joke of their former self. Kind of sad really.
mekster 4y ago
What are those some of the good Apache projects? Practically never used anything but httpd (which I no longer use) and everything else looked like bloated software being Java taking huge resource and usually has a better competitor. I occasionally see Kafka being used as parts of software stack but not sure if that is the best choice with huge resource use.
- aembleton 4y ago
  Their Java libraries and utils are good: Maven, Utils, Commons, CommonsIO
klysm 4y ago
At a minimum, and they all have so many bugs :(
Cthulhu_ 4y ago
I often feel like projects that are handed over to Apache are basically put in the equivalent of an aircraft boneyard; stashed for archival purposes, but it will no longer receive much development effort.
- sgift 4y ago
  Come again? Lucene, Solr, Kafka, Zookeeper, httpd, CouchDB, .. and that's just the top of my head.
- cogman10 4y ago
  Seems to be the pattern. Whenever something gets the "Apache" prefix I get nervous that it's abandoned. Giving Apache ownership of something is always a signal that whoever was maintaining it before, doesn't want to maintain it anymore. Whether or not that thing dies depends entirely on who ends up running the project post transition to apache. Funnily, there have been a few cases of projects that have seen a breath of new life by moving over to apache. Netbeans and Groovy seem to be standouts there.
  - benibela 4y ago
    > Netbeans and Groovy I used that ten years ago I though they were dead by now
    - cogman10 4y ago
      Around the time they transitioned to Apache, they were pretty close to dead. After the transition they've both notably picked up dev work.
- LAC-Tech 4y ago
  Kafka and CouchDB are both actively developed
  - pas 4y ago
    Cassandra and most of the Hadoop zoo too, but that's mostly because of a few vendors. (Eg. DataStax for Cassandra, and Cloudera & Hortonworks for Hadoop. Plus probably a bunch of smaller ones.)
- catdog 4y ago
  Companies handing their failed projects over definitely seems to be a pattern. On the other hand the ASF has a few very active and healthy projects under its umbrella, sometimes being among if not the go to solution inside a specific problem space.
KptMarchewa 4y ago
It's a misconception of what Apache is. It's legal umbrella for open source projects, not an organization with a goal of actually developing projects.
- jrochkind1 4y ago
  Good point, and fair. Apache presumably has criteria for accepting an open source project? Although all I can find is this, marked "draft": https://www.apache.org/dev/project-requirements https://www.apache.org/dev/project-requirements But I'd suggest they need some, and also minimum requirements for remaining an Apache project, which if not met, the project will be either removed, or perhaps just clearly marked archived/unmaintained/historical on apache pages. (a status from which perhaps there is a way to escape with renewed attention as well).
  - rodgerd 4y ago
    In the case of OpenOffice, they've repeatedly gamed efforts to close them down by doing bad-faith "releases" to pretend that they've got activity. ASF governance is weak, and that's why it might as well be the Abandonware Software Foundation.
  - KptMarchewa 4y ago
    I think Apache Attic is exactly this. https://attic.apache.org/ https://attic.apache.org/
tannhaeuser 4y ago
That's a consequence of the ASF largely serving as a way to dump software that isn't commercially viable (or wasn't to begin with). The idea being that a community can form around it, consisting of former users and developers. Taking software to the ASF is accompanied by a grant to the ASF, and I think it's a decent way to stop developing a product, or is at least miles better than a torched earth approach and stop sales, support, development immediately, firing developers, etc. Not everything will live on ofc, but at least one can try.
- dredmorbius 4y ago
  Is ASF the CA of Free Software?
  - ncmncm 4y ago
    Softbank
  - ironmagma 4y ago
    Do you mean certificate authority or California? I can see an argument for both.
    - mardifoufs 4y ago
      Probably Computer Associates. Speaking of soulcrushing software graveyards, there's also OpenText (though it is less well known).
      - zaps 4y ago
        “OpenText” (gets PTSD shivers thinking about LiveLink)
        dredmorbius 4y ago
        TIL. Oh, and that was Tim Bray.
      - 4y ago
0des 4y ago
They have Google Wave -> Apache Wave
vhold 4y ago
The practical answer is that you go and look at a project's release history at its primary repo. I don't know of a good way to browse all apache projects by livelihood though. The closest thing I know of to keep track of Apache projects overall is this: https://lists.apache.org/list.html?announce@apache.org https://lists.apache.org/list.html?announce@apache.org But just eyeballing that really quick I can see it's not authoritative, because a new version of Apache Spark just came out and isn't announced there. https://spark.apache.org/news/index.html https://spark.apache.org/news/index.html There is also this, but it's very cluttered with submodules, but it does appear more authoritative. https://projects.apache.org/releases.html https://projects.apache.org/releases.html

eikenberry 4y ago

I've learned over the last decade or so just to avoid Apache software. It seems like the vast majority of their software is poorly written, enterprise abandonware. They are a joke of their former self. Kind of sad really.

mekster 4y ago

What are those some of the good Apache projects? Practically never used anything but httpd (which I no longer use) and everything else looked like bloated software being Java taking huge resource and usually has a better competitor. I occasionally see Kafka being used as parts of software stack but not sure if that is the best choice with huge resource use.

aembleton 4y ago
Their Java libraries and utils are good: Maven, Utils, Commons, CommonsIO

klysm 4y ago

At a minimum, and they all have so many bugs :(

Cthulhu_ 4y ago

I often feel like projects that are handed over to Apache are basically put in the equivalent of an aircraft boneyard; stashed for archival purposes, but it will no longer receive much development effort.

sgift 4y ago
Come again? Lucene, Solr, Kafka, Zookeeper, httpd, CouchDB, .. and that's just the top of my head.
cogman10 4y ago
Seems to be the pattern. Whenever something gets the "Apache" prefix I get nervous that it's abandoned. Giving Apache ownership of something is always a signal that whoever was maintaining it before, doesn't want to maintain it anymore. Whether or not that thing dies depends entirely on who ends up running the project post transition to apache. Funnily, there have been a few cases of projects that have seen a breath of new life by moving over to apache. Netbeans and Groovy seem to be standouts there.
- benibela 4y ago
  > Netbeans and Groovy I used that ten years ago I though they were dead by now
  - cogman10 4y ago
    Around the time they transitioned to Apache, they were pretty close to dead. After the transition they've both notably picked up dev work.
LAC-Tech 4y ago
Kafka and CouchDB are both actively developed
- pas 4y ago
  Cassandra and most of the Hadoop zoo too, but that's mostly because of a few vendors. (Eg. DataStax for Cassandra, and Cloudera & Hortonworks for Hadoop. Plus probably a bunch of smaller ones.)
catdog 4y ago
Companies handing their failed projects over definitely seems to be a pattern. On the other hand the ASF has a few very active and healthy projects under its umbrella, sometimes being among if not the go to solution inside a specific problem space.

KptMarchewa 4y ago

It's a misconception of what Apache is. It's legal umbrella for open source projects, not an organization with a goal of actually developing projects.

jrochkind1 4y ago
Good point, and fair. Apache presumably has criteria for accepting an open source project? Although all I can find is this, marked "draft": https://www.apache.org/dev/project-requirements https://www.apache.org/dev/project-requirements But I'd suggest they need some, and also minimum requirements for remaining an Apache project, which if not met, the project will be either removed, or perhaps just clearly marked archived/unmaintained/historical on apache pages. (a status from which perhaps there is a way to escape with renewed attention as well).
- rodgerd 4y ago
  In the case of OpenOffice, they've repeatedly gamed efforts to close them down by doing bad-faith "releases" to pretend that they've got activity. ASF governance is weak, and that's why it might as well be the Abandonware Software Foundation.
- KptMarchewa 4y ago
  I think Apache Attic is exactly this. https://attic.apache.org/ https://attic.apache.org/

tannhaeuser 4y ago

That's a consequence of the ASF largely serving as a way to dump software that isn't commercially viable (or wasn't to begin with). The idea being that a community can form around it, consisting of former users and developers. Taking software to the ASF is accompanied by a grant to the ASF, and I think it's a decent way to stop developing a product, or is at least miles better than a torched earth approach and stop sales, support, development immediately, firing developers, etc. Not everything will live on ofc, but at least one can try.

dredmorbius 4y ago
Is ASF the CA of Free Software?
- ncmncm 4y ago
  Softbank
- ironmagma 4y ago
  Do you mean certificate authority or California? I can see an argument for both.
  - mardifoufs 4y ago
    Probably Computer Associates. Speaking of soulcrushing software graveyards, there's also OpenText (though it is less well known).
    - zaps 4y ago
      “OpenText” (gets PTSD shivers thinking about LiveLink)
      - dredmorbius 4y ago
        TIL. Oh, and that was Tim Bray.
    - 4y ago

0des 4y ago

They have Google Wave -> Apache Wave

vhold 4y ago

The practical answer is that you go and look at a project's release history at its primary repo. I don't know of a good way to browse all apache projects by livelihood though. The closest thing I know of to keep track of Apache projects overall is this: https://lists.apache.org/list.html?announce@apache.org https://lists.apache.org/list.html?announce@apache.org But just eyeballing that really quick I can see it's not authoritative, because a new version of Apache Spark just came out and isn't announced there. https://spark.apache.org/news/index.html https://spark.apache.org/news/index.html There is also this, but it's very cluttered with submodules, but it does appear more authoritative. https://projects.apache.org/releases.html https://projects.apache.org/releases.html