3 ms·

Fogbugz/Kiln financially scales way better after 40 users. E.g., if you have a 200-user company, that's still a flat rate of 15K initial & 5K/year for Fog Cree

by pnathan 15y ago

Fogbugz/Kiln financially scales way better after 40 users. E.g., if you have a 200-user company, that's still a flat rate of 15K initial & 5K/year for Fog Creek's stuff (plus maintenance). But for github, that's 50K/year. Github is a high-quality product, no question about it. But the price is steep compared to Kiln/Fogbugz, IMO.

deleted 15y ago
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benatkin 15y ago
> Fogbugz/Kiln financially scales way better after 40 users. I don't agree with how you're using the word scales. It actually scales fine, as a percent of their budget per employee. It's flat. With GitHub Enterprise it's approximately 250 * (n + n % 20) dollars per year. For companies they're targeting, $250/yr is less than a percent of their total budget per employee (including salary, benefits, workspace, etc). If it saves each employee fifteen minutes a week it's worth it.
- pnathan 15y ago
  Disagree. Fogbugz gives a greater and greater savings per employee as your employee count goes up. Here's a Perl script I wrote to visualize the idea. Feed the output into gnuplot and you'll see what I mean. use warnings; use strict; use 5.010; use POSIX qw(ceil floor); # Let's start at 100 employees and walk up by 25. for(my $count = 100; $count < 1000; $count+=25) { # Flat rate for fogbugz/kiln. my $fb = 15000 / $count; # ceil(number of users / 20) * blocks of 20-seats to buy. my $gh = (ceil($count / 20) * 5000) / $count; say "$count $fb $gh"; } This asymptotically trends towards about $20/employee for Fogbugz; GitHub hangs around $250 per. At no point in these calculations is GitHub cheaper per than FogBugz. Now, in the < 100 employee range where the different FogCreek pricings apply, I am not sure who wins, I'd guess it trades off back and forth depending on the # of employees. edit: awkward formatting. Also, if I've biffed my formulas, let me know and I'll update it! edit2: forgot to comparatively do analysis
  - benatkin 15y ago
    Nice graph, but why does it need to be so much cheaper per seat as the business gets larger? Many items in the budget don't get much cheaper per seat as the business grows. A company that buys 1000 MacBook Pros doesn't pay half as much per MacBook Pro as a company that buys 10.
    - pnathan 15y ago
      Well, if you want to not be fiscally efficient...

by pnathan 15y ago

deleted 15y ago

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benatkin 15y ago

> Fogbugz/Kiln financially scales way better after 40 users. I don't agree with how you're using the word scales. It actually scales fine, as a percent of their budget per employee. It's flat. With GitHub Enterprise it's approximately 250 * (n + n % 20) dollars per year. For companies they're targeting, $250/yr is less than a percent of their total budget per employee (including salary, benefits, workspace, etc). If it saves each employee fifteen minutes a week it's worth it.

pnathan 15y ago
Disagree. Fogbugz gives a greater and greater savings per employee as your employee count goes up. Here's a Perl script I wrote to visualize the idea. Feed the output into gnuplot and you'll see what I mean. use warnings; use strict; use 5.010; use POSIX qw(ceil floor); # Let's start at 100 employees and walk up by 25. for(my $count = 100; $count < 1000; $count+=25) { # Flat rate for fogbugz/kiln. my $fb = 15000 / $count; # ceil(number of users / 20) * blocks of 20-seats to buy. my $gh = (ceil($count / 20) * 5000) / $count; say "$count $fb $gh"; } This asymptotically trends towards about $20/employee for Fogbugz; GitHub hangs around $250 per. At no point in these calculations is GitHub cheaper per than FogBugz. Now, in the < 100 employee range where the different FogCreek pricings apply, I am not sure who wins, I'd guess it trades off back and forth depending on the # of employees. edit: awkward formatting. Also, if I've biffed my formulas, let me know and I'll update it! edit2: forgot to comparatively do analysis
- benatkin 15y ago
  Nice graph, but why does it need to be so much cheaper per seat as the business gets larger? Many items in the budget don't get much cheaper per seat as the business grows. A company that buys 1000 MacBook Pros doesn't pay half as much per MacBook Pro as a company that buys 10.
  - pnathan 15y ago
    Well, if you want to not be fiscally efficient...