9 ms·

Seeing ignorant comments like this, it’s not hard to understand why so much of the world is sick of Western hubris.

darthrupert 4y ago
Russian hubris, on the other hand, is awesome and everybody loves it!
Tabular-Iceberg 4y ago
Even being a liberal myself, I agree that it's a mistake to push liberalism on cultures that are not interested in liberalism. This has put completely unnecessary strain on the relations between the west and places like Russia and the Middle East. What is non-negotiable on the other hand is that whoever you are and wherever you are, the rule of law must be respected. You may correctly point out that not even the west is perfect in this regard, but then go be better than the west. Be the place we should want to emigrate to, not the other way around.
- darthrupert 4y ago
  This is true, however, Russia was moving towards a liberal direction all by itself in the 80s and 90s. That positive progress was stopped deliberately by Putin, after he rose to power with not a small amount of nefarious actions. You might say that a truly liberal nation would have managed to stop him nevertheless. Could be, but things like this often hang by very thin threads. E.g. as we know, the American democracy was very nearly destroyed in the previous presidential elections. It could have very easily gone south.
jhugo 4y ago
At least they didn't say "just overthrow your government", I've seen that one plenty...
- 908B64B197 4y ago
  Freedom is never granted, it is earned and paid for at the highest price [0]. What's their excuse? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Massacre
  - Dracophoenix 4y ago
    That popular revolutions rarely work in this day and age, especially when the majority of the participants don't know how to wield a gun? In the Colonial Era, every able-bodied New England male knew how to at least, hunt and shoot. Every successful "revolution" in the modern era has depended on whose side the Army was on. Why? Because the Army is composed of people who's sole purpose is to get good at using guns.
    - 908B64B197 4y ago
      Wait, then why are most modern western government trying to impose stricter gun control measures?
      - Dracophoenix 4y ago
        They impose stricter measures In a heavily misguided attempt at trading rights for security. Suffice it to say it's not really an effective solution.
      - _-david-_ 4y ago
        Assuming the person you were responding to is accurate, one reason would be to prevent a revolution that kicks those in power out.
      - jhugo 4y ago
        Why would any government encourage its citizens to get better at revolution?
    - _-david-_ 4y ago
      >That popular revolutions rarely work in this day and age I'm curious if you have any list of revolutions that have succeeded and failed. I can't really think of any in recent times. I don't think revolutions in Africa or the Middle East to be a good comparison and those are the only ones I can think of.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
the_biot 4y ago
It's a simplistic view allright, but then so is yours. Not all Russians are kremlin-dwelling villains, and not all westerners are post-colonial finger-waggers. What Github does is no doubt for business and regulatory reasons, but also moral: after decades of downright malicious behavior on the international stage (not to mention the preceding 70 years of pure evil), Russia finally sunk so low in the world's esteem that doing business with or within Russia has now become "not done"; it's seen as enabling evil to continue. Even businesses that are not affected by the sanctions now hesitate to do business there (shipping, for example). It's unjust for ordinary Russians to get caught under these sanctions, and is perilously close to collective punishment, but Russia simply, finally went too far.
- throwaway290 4y ago
  I agree that a degree of blame carries over, but the impact of measures like this (that affect ordinary Russians who left the country due to political disagreement) could be the opposite of desired. Not many Russians will be seen as eligible for asylum, regardless of their political views, and barring that the remaining options for software engineers working remotely are slowly narrowing down to returning back to the country and working to benefit its industry. Those who have families would be affected most strongly.

Russian hubris, on the other hand, is awesome and everybody loves it!

Even being a liberal myself, I agree that it's a mistake to push liberalism on cultures that are not interested in liberalism. This has put completely unnecessary strain on the relations between the west and places like Russia and the Middle East. What is non-negotiable on the other hand is that whoever you are and wherever you are, the rule of law must be respected. You may correctly point out that not even the west is perfect in this regard, but then go be better than the west. Be the place we should want to emigrate to, not the other way around.

darthrupert 4y ago
This is true, however, Russia was moving towards a liberal direction all by itself in the 80s and 90s. That positive progress was stopped deliberately by Putin, after he rose to power with not a small amount of nefarious actions. You might say that a truly liberal nation would have managed to stop him nevertheless. Could be, but things like this often hang by very thin threads. E.g. as we know, the American democracy was very nearly destroyed in the previous presidential elections. It could have very easily gone south.

jhugo 4y ago

At least they didn't say "just overthrow your government", I've seen that one plenty...

908B64B197 4y ago
Freedom is never granted, it is earned and paid for at the highest price [0]. What's their excuse? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Massacre
- Dracophoenix 4y ago
  That popular revolutions rarely work in this day and age, especially when the majority of the participants don't know how to wield a gun? In the Colonial Era, every able-bodied New England male knew how to at least, hunt and shoot. Every successful "revolution" in the modern era has depended on whose side the Army was on. Why? Because the Army is composed of people who's sole purpose is to get good at using guns.
  - 908B64B197 4y ago
    Wait, then why are most modern western government trying to impose stricter gun control measures?
    - Dracophoenix 4y ago
      They impose stricter measures In a heavily misguided attempt at trading rights for security. Suffice it to say it's not really an effective solution.
    - _-david-_ 4y ago
      Assuming the person you were responding to is accurate, one reason would be to prevent a revolution that kicks those in power out.
    - jhugo 4y ago
      Why would any government encourage its citizens to get better at revolution?
  - _-david-_ 4y ago
    >That popular revolutions rarely work in this day and age I'm curious if you have any list of revolutions that have succeeded and failed. I can't really think of any in recent times. I don't think revolutions in Africa or the Middle East to be a good comparison and those are the only ones I can think of.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

the_biot 4y ago

It's a simplistic view allright, but then so is yours. Not all Russians are kremlin-dwelling villains, and not all westerners are post-colonial finger-waggers. What Github does is no doubt for business and regulatory reasons, but also moral: after decades of downright malicious behavior on the international stage (not to mention the preceding 70 years of pure evil), Russia finally sunk so low in the world's esteem that doing business with or within Russia has now become "not done"; it's seen as enabling evil to continue. Even businesses that are not affected by the sanctions now hesitate to do business there (shipping, for example). It's unjust for ordinary Russians to get caught under these sanctions, and is perilously close to collective punishment, but Russia simply, finally went too far.

throwaway290 4y ago
I agree that a degree of blame carries over, but the impact of measures like this (that affect ordinary Russians who left the country due to political disagreement) could be the opposite of desired. Not many Russians will be seen as eligible for asylum, regardless of their political views, and barring that the remaining options for software engineers working remotely are slowly narrowing down to returning back to the country and working to benefit its industry. Those who have families would be affected most strongly.