8 ms·

In my experience, the time to make money selling mobile apps was 2008-2012 or so. The market is totally different now. In my opinion, has never been harder to

In my experience, the time to make money selling mobile apps was 2008-2012 or so. The market is totally different now. In my opinion, has never been harder to make money charging money for apps: - Competition is huge (including underhanded competition that will clone any successful app instantly) - Customer appetite to pay for "apps" is near zero. Customers don't even want to download more apps, let alone pay money for them. - Programs like Apple Arcade and Google Play Pass have further eroded the idea of paying for apps - Ad-driven trash apps and poor app store ranking/discoverability have further driven consumers away from trying new apps in app stores Of course lots of successful businesses use apps as part of their business model. But very few are making money from selling the app itself unless they have a really good niche figured out.

octobus2021 4y ago
I started a company making and selling Android games (phone and tablets) around 2010. Made 5 games with 0 revenue, however couple years later Google Ads found widespread fraud and they re-distributed some earnings and I ended up with a few hundred $$ (I spent several thousand on those games working with remote designers/developers, marketing, etc). It was already really REALLY BAD. People would "re-skin" games, so they would make a game (or more often just steal one and re-package as their own) and replace graphics/audio to make it look different even though it was the same game. If I recall correctly some managed to have almost a hundred re-skins of the same game. Of course the more games you have as a publisher the higher you are in the search results/easier it is for you to get new installs. Click fraud was rampant even then, with cloned and fake SIMs, real and virtual devices, botnets... It was nearly impossible to make anything in that market back then so I folded around 2012. Of course it's loser's perspective, maybe somebody else has more optimistic take :-)
- the_only_law 4y ago
  > It was already really REALLY BAD. People would "re-skin" games, so they would make a game (or more often just steal one and re-package as their own) and replace graphics/audio to make it look different even though it was the same game. If I recall correctly some managed to have almost a hundred re-skins of the same game Mobile games are a pit. Modern phones can run pretty impressive stuff now, hell iOS has Civ 6 and Total War Medieval 2 ports. But instead the stores seem to be filled with endless reskins of the same tired concepts as a decade ago. And then the ads are all lies. They'll legit just rip some footage from a well established and well liked PC game, say Age of Empires II, and use that in their ads when the actual game is just a shitty Clash of Clans ripoff.
- freemint 4y ago
  If you wanna get an idea how really bad the situation was/is i recommend this GDC talk. https://youtu.be/E8Lhqri8tZk https://youtu.be/E8Lhqri8tZk
lakomen 4y ago
Good summary. Every time I install some random new app I feel like I exposed my phone to predators. As a result I don't even install new apps anymore, and when I do they get uninstalled quickly because they're really hostile. Let's take Twitter, you install it, it wants to know you date of birth and your phone number. Absolutely not. Facebook, if you have it and Instagram installed and allow "media access" it scans your phone's ssd to detect instagram then proceeds to annoy you to asking if you that's your instagram account and if you want to connect those. No I do not, I'd rather unistall both so you can't further spy on me. And many many more such examples. I just pick the 2 most prominent. Also I don't see the phone as a proper OS where I would spend money on. It's a gadget, a plaything and my head hurts if I use it too long and I need some time to recover.
altdataseller 4y ago
There's usually tight period where you can make money when these new ecosystems pop up. With Android/iPhone, it was clearly 2008-2012, as you mentioned. With Google/SEO, it was 2004-2010 (right before Google Panda/Penguin algorithm). With Facebook ads/Shopify/DTC, it was 2010-2016. With SaaS, it was 2010-2016, IMO.
gesman 4y ago
Already successful business will strengthen their presence with app but not through app. App-based business models are recipe for disasters. Many horror stories of app banned because scammy competitor complained. Apple or Google won't care. High app rating for new app is a sure sign of cloned app or scam. I won't download 95% of apps if i see "includes in-app purchases". Special purpose apps like "All Trails" or specialized aggregators/organizers that require lots of work to deliver - typically justify the cost. Cute calculators that require recurring payments to disable annoying ads is complete nonsense
Eddy_Viscosity2 4y ago
I agree with this, personally I stopped installing new apps a while ago and use the browser more. I see apps as just security and privacy nightmares and forget about getting me to pay for them. Not to say I won't pay for good things, I have a number of subscriptions to various web services. There are a few exceptions where I have to install and use an app, and I resent each of those situations.
- jxramos 4y ago
  Same exact sentiment and behavior on my end. I’ve become what I call “app-averse”
- nmstoker 4y ago
  Similar views here. It has recently become even worse as the Google Store no longer shows permissions.
- moneywoes 4y ago
  Would you be more likely to pay for a chrome extension?
  - Eddy_Viscosity2 4y ago
    Potentially, provided I found it both useful and trustworthy.
  - toyg 4y ago
    Most people don't even know what those are.
  - bobkazamakis 4y ago
    I will never pay for a chrome extension because of the threat vector it allows for malicious actors. Yes, maybe you've got a great extension, but you require DOM access for every page I hit. Maybe I even trust you completely! But I can't trust that next week a bad actor buys you out and drops in a browser exploit.
    - 4y ago
andyjohnson0 4y ago
Agree. I'd be very reluctant to pay for an app. Depending on need I might pay for a service that is delivered by app and browser, but I probably wouldn't bother with the app unless I was frequently interacting with the service on a mobile device.
- criddell 4y ago
  Although I'm not a mobile app developer, I wish the app stores made it easier for developers to charge for upgrades. There are some excellent apps out there that feel like they are too inexpensive. The purchase model with crazy low prices doesn't feel sustainable. For example, Procreate on an iPad with the Pencil is probably my favorite program for any platform from any time. I think I paid $10 years and years ago. Since then the creators have continued to develop the program and it's way better than it was when I bought it. I would have been more than happy to send them another $10 here and there for some of the significant updates. However, I don't like the subscription model unless it's implemented like JetBrains does it where the subscription fee entitles you to updates and you have a perpetual license for the software once you have it.
monkeybutton 4y ago
>Customers don't even want to download more apps, let alone pay money for them. I'm at the point where each OS update means another app gets purged from my phone.
- jxramos 4y ago
  Can you elaborate further. What’s the relation or workflow to the OS update that connects to native apps exactly?
  - withinboredom 4y ago
    The update takes up disk space. Ergo, if you have "too many" apps, you have to delete some to make up room for the update.
    - monkeybutton 4y ago
      This is it. Even with keeping photos and music on a micro SD card, the internal storage for the OS and apps is often woefully undersized.
rasulkireev 4y ago
> Customers don't even want to download more apps, let alone pay money for them. Interestingly, I found myself thinking about this and thought about it a little different. I indeed want to have as little apps on my phone as possible, but that made me want to increase the quality of those apps. And thus I wasn't against paying for those if they are indeed better quality. It's like with cooking. If your dish uses less ingredients, you can focus on better quality ingredients then.
- gigaflop 4y ago
  Apps should fill some kind of utility for the user. Once I have my utilities covered, why would I want to get something else that does the same thing? So, once I have my needs covered, I have very little desire to go hunting for something new.
- bombcar 4y ago
  The problem is almost all apps are just a wrapped webpage anyway - I want apps that keep working (to the best of their ability) offline, which very VERY few do. Kindle and HERE maps are some of the ones I can think of.
hgazx 4y ago
The situation of games is dire. I wish there was a good rpg that I could pay for upfront, without micro transactions. I don’t even look for one because it’s unlikely to exist.
- hadlock 4y ago
  Yeah I own a nintendo switch for games. One store for all my home and mobile gaming (for what little travel we do these days, where I'm not driving the car). I have no desire to get on the microtransaction treadmill as I am not part of the 3% or whatever of users that provide the majority of their revenue. Nintendo Switch has more than enough jrpgs to last a lifetime. Even charges off the same connector as my phone.
- vicek22 4y ago
  I find that the ports of older PC RPGs are the best for paying only once and getting the full uninterrupted game. Knights of the Old Republic I and II are the best IMO.
- coopierez 4y ago
  If you haven't played them yet, Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy I-VI are all available on mobile app stores. DQ IV-VI in particular are very charming and hold up well (imho!). If you're more of a western RPG guy I believe Icewind Dale and Baldur's gate are on there too.
  - antifa 4y ago
    I'd be hesitant to pay for a Square Enix game on mobile. There are horror stories about the devs forcing users to be online and then also accidentally deleting the forced-online game saves.
    - coopierez 4y ago
      I agree that there are... issues with Squenix games from time to time on mobile (e.g. font issues on the new remasters of FF I-VI), but none of the games I mentioned enforce cloud saves.
afpx 4y ago
Poor discoverability makes for such an awful user experience. Google and Apple have no incentive to improve their search. It's easier and more profitable for them to shill out their promoted apps. It's like if we were given the Internet in 1990 but forced to use AOL to search, forever. Someone please disrupt app search.
jamil7 4y ago
> In my experience, the time to make money selling mobile apps was 2008-2012 or so. The market is totally different now. The market is very different I agree but I'd disagree on the money part. Subscription B2C business models are normalised and there's a lot of companies making a lot of money in both app stores right now. In fact I think you can probably make more money now than you could in 2008-2012. Granted it's all a lot more sophisticated and requires more up-front capital, larger marketing budgets and larger teams than it used to but the money is there. As far as I see, people are installing less apps but the few they have they're spending more time and money in.
- orangecat 4y ago
  Granted it's all a lot more sophisticated and requires more up-front capital, larger marketing budgets and larger teams Yeah, that's pretty much the point. In 2010 I released a paid app developed in my spare time, did zero marketing, and made around $10k after app store fees and taxes. That would never happen today.
  - jamil7 4y ago
    Yeah paid upfront and zero marketing won't get you far anymore but that's true everywhere in software now.
neves 4y ago
And some apps, like Tweeter and YouTube, have better experience in a browser with an uBlock Origin or using the Brave browser.

octobus2021 4y ago

I started a company making and selling Android games (phone and tablets) around 2010. Made 5 games with 0 revenue, however couple years later Google Ads found widespread fraud and they re-distributed some earnings and I ended up with a few hundred $$ (I spent several thousand on those games working with remote designers/developers, marketing, etc). It was already really REALLY BAD. People would "re-skin" games, so they would make a game (or more often just steal one and re-package as their own) and replace graphics/audio to make it look different even though it was the same game. If I recall correctly some managed to have almost a hundred re-skins of the same game. Of course the more games you have as a publisher the higher you are in the search results/easier it is for you to get new installs. Click fraud was rampant even then, with cloned and fake SIMs, real and virtual devices, botnets... It was nearly impossible to make anything in that market back then so I folded around 2012. Of course it's loser's perspective, maybe somebody else has more optimistic take :-)

the_only_law 4y ago
> It was already really REALLY BAD. People would "re-skin" games, so they would make a game (or more often just steal one and re-package as their own) and replace graphics/audio to make it look different even though it was the same game. If I recall correctly some managed to have almost a hundred re-skins of the same game Mobile games are a pit. Modern phones can run pretty impressive stuff now, hell iOS has Civ 6 and Total War Medieval 2 ports. But instead the stores seem to be filled with endless reskins of the same tired concepts as a decade ago. And then the ads are all lies. They'll legit just rip some footage from a well established and well liked PC game, say Age of Empires II, and use that in their ads when the actual game is just a shitty Clash of Clans ripoff.
freemint 4y ago
If you wanna get an idea how really bad the situation was/is i recommend this GDC talk. https://youtu.be/E8Lhqri8tZk https://youtu.be/E8Lhqri8tZk

lakomen 4y ago

Good summary. Every time I install some random new app I feel like I exposed my phone to predators. As a result I don't even install new apps anymore, and when I do they get uninstalled quickly because they're really hostile. Let's take Twitter, you install it, it wants to know you date of birth and your phone number. Absolutely not. Facebook, if you have it and Instagram installed and allow "media access" it scans your phone's ssd to detect instagram then proceeds to annoy you to asking if you that's your instagram account and if you want to connect those. No I do not, I'd rather unistall both so you can't further spy on me. And many many more such examples. I just pick the 2 most prominent. Also I don't see the phone as a proper OS where I would spend money on. It's a gadget, a plaything and my head hurts if I use it too long and I need some time to recover.

altdataseller 4y ago

There's usually tight period where you can make money when these new ecosystems pop up. With Android/iPhone, it was clearly 2008-2012, as you mentioned. With Google/SEO, it was 2004-2010 (right before Google Panda/Penguin algorithm). With Facebook ads/Shopify/DTC, it was 2010-2016. With SaaS, it was 2010-2016, IMO.

gesman 4y ago

Already successful business will strengthen their presence with app but not through app. App-based business models are recipe for disasters. Many horror stories of app banned because scammy competitor complained. Apple or Google won't care. High app rating for new app is a sure sign of cloned app or scam. I won't download 95% of apps if i see "includes in-app purchases". Special purpose apps like "All Trails" or specialized aggregators/organizers that require lots of work to deliver - typically justify the cost. Cute calculators that require recurring payments to disable annoying ads is complete nonsense

Eddy_Viscosity2 4y ago

I agree with this, personally I stopped installing new apps a while ago and use the browser more. I see apps as just security and privacy nightmares and forget about getting me to pay for them. Not to say I won't pay for good things, I have a number of subscriptions to various web services. There are a few exceptions where I have to install and use an app, and I resent each of those situations.

jxramos 4y ago
Same exact sentiment and behavior on my end. I’ve become what I call “app-averse”
nmstoker 4y ago
Similar views here. It has recently become even worse as the Google Store no longer shows permissions.
moneywoes 4y ago
Would you be more likely to pay for a chrome extension?
- Eddy_Viscosity2 4y ago
  Potentially, provided I found it both useful and trustworthy.
- toyg 4y ago
  Most people don't even know what those are.
- bobkazamakis 4y ago
  I will never pay for a chrome extension because of the threat vector it allows for malicious actors. Yes, maybe you've got a great extension, but you require DOM access for every page I hit. Maybe I even trust you completely! But I can't trust that next week a bad actor buys you out and drops in a browser exploit.
  - 4y ago

andyjohnson0 4y ago

Agree. I'd be very reluctant to pay for an app. Depending on need I might pay for a service that is delivered by app and browser, but I probably wouldn't bother with the app unless I was frequently interacting with the service on a mobile device.

criddell 4y ago
Although I'm not a mobile app developer, I wish the app stores made it easier for developers to charge for upgrades. There are some excellent apps out there that feel like they are too inexpensive. The purchase model with crazy low prices doesn't feel sustainable. For example, Procreate on an iPad with the Pencil is probably my favorite program for any platform from any time. I think I paid $10 years and years ago. Since then the creators have continued to develop the program and it's way better than it was when I bought it. I would have been more than happy to send them another $10 here and there for some of the significant updates. However, I don't like the subscription model unless it's implemented like JetBrains does it where the subscription fee entitles you to updates and you have a perpetual license for the software once you have it.

monkeybutton 4y ago

>Customers don't even want to download more apps, let alone pay money for them. I'm at the point where each OS update means another app gets purged from my phone.

jxramos 4y ago
Can you elaborate further. What’s the relation or workflow to the OS update that connects to native apps exactly?
- withinboredom 4y ago
  The update takes up disk space. Ergo, if you have "too many" apps, you have to delete some to make up room for the update.
  - monkeybutton 4y ago
    This is it. Even with keeping photos and music on a micro SD card, the internal storage for the OS and apps is often woefully undersized.

rasulkireev 4y ago

> Customers don't even want to download more apps, let alone pay money for them. Interestingly, I found myself thinking about this and thought about it a little different. I indeed want to have as little apps on my phone as possible, but that made me want to increase the quality of those apps. And thus I wasn't against paying for those if they are indeed better quality. It's like with cooking. If your dish uses less ingredients, you can focus on better quality ingredients then.

gigaflop 4y ago
Apps should fill some kind of utility for the user. Once I have my utilities covered, why would I want to get something else that does the same thing? So, once I have my needs covered, I have very little desire to go hunting for something new.
bombcar 4y ago
The problem is almost all apps are just a wrapped webpage anyway - I want apps that keep working (to the best of their ability) offline, which very VERY few do. Kindle and HERE maps are some of the ones I can think of.

hgazx 4y ago

The situation of games is dire. I wish there was a good rpg that I could pay for upfront, without micro transactions. I don’t even look for one because it’s unlikely to exist.

hadlock 4y ago
Yeah I own a nintendo switch for games. One store for all my home and mobile gaming (for what little travel we do these days, where I'm not driving the car). I have no desire to get on the microtransaction treadmill as I am not part of the 3% or whatever of users that provide the majority of their revenue. Nintendo Switch has more than enough jrpgs to last a lifetime. Even charges off the same connector as my phone.
vicek22 4y ago
I find that the ports of older PC RPGs are the best for paying only once and getting the full uninterrupted game. Knights of the Old Republic I and II are the best IMO.
coopierez 4y ago
If you haven't played them yet, Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy I-VI are all available on mobile app stores. DQ IV-VI in particular are very charming and hold up well (imho!). If you're more of a western RPG guy I believe Icewind Dale and Baldur's gate are on there too.
- antifa 4y ago
  I'd be hesitant to pay for a Square Enix game on mobile. There are horror stories about the devs forcing users to be online and then also accidentally deleting the forced-online game saves.
  - coopierez 4y ago
    I agree that there are... issues with Squenix games from time to time on mobile (e.g. font issues on the new remasters of FF I-VI), but none of the games I mentioned enforce cloud saves.

afpx 4y ago

Poor discoverability makes for such an awful user experience. Google and Apple have no incentive to improve their search. It's easier and more profitable for them to shill out their promoted apps. It's like if we were given the Internet in 1990 but forced to use AOL to search, forever. Someone please disrupt app search.

jamil7 4y ago

> In my experience, the time to make money selling mobile apps was 2008-2012 or so. The market is totally different now. The market is very different I agree but I'd disagree on the money part. Subscription B2C business models are normalised and there's a lot of companies making a lot of money in both app stores right now. In fact I think you can probably make more money now than you could in 2008-2012. Granted it's all a lot more sophisticated and requires more up-front capital, larger marketing budgets and larger teams than it used to but the money is there. As far as I see, people are installing less apps but the few they have they're spending more time and money in.

orangecat 4y ago
Granted it's all a lot more sophisticated and requires more up-front capital, larger marketing budgets and larger teams Yeah, that's pretty much the point. In 2010 I released a paid app developed in my spare time, did zero marketing, and made around $10k after app store fees and taxes. That would never happen today.
- jamil7 4y ago
  Yeah paid upfront and zero marketing won't get you far anymore but that's true everywhere in software now.

neves 4y ago

And some apps, like Tweeter and YouTube, have better experience in a browser with an uBlock Origin or using the Brave browser.