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Humans are so funny. Blaming the flawed tools we create for the problems caused by using them in all of our flawed manners. Bitcoin is a tool, like any other.

Humans are so funny. Blaming the flawed tools we create for the problems caused by using them in all of our flawed manners. Bitcoin is a tool, like any other. Tools can be used constructively or destructively. The ease and affordability of transferring remittances internationally is the single most useful case for Bitcoin. In those instances value is not kept in BTC except for the duration of the transfer so it is not as susceptible to the market fluctuations. On top of that it is much faster and sometimes cheaper even for more local transactions like invoices for freelancers to be done via BTC. The banking systems have failed in a lot of ways related to the above use cases. In the US it can still take days for a check or transfer to clear. Red tape and fees abound when transferring large amounts between parties. PayPal will just shutoff your account because they don't want the risk. etc. etc. In the future I expect to see BTC to mainly utilized for these types of financial transfers and less as a long-term store of value. Of course like any item of value there will always be the speculation side.

Nursie 4y ago
> In the US Problem identified.
- macinjosh 4y ago
  Hateful much? Sorry I was born here and not the super awesome perfect place you are from.
  - Nursie 4y ago
    Not in the slightest. The US is a fine country. But it lags behind in banking and payments.
    - Nursie 4y ago
      Acrually I take this back, the US is not a fine country, it's an utter mess.
      - SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
        And part of the problem is that whenever someone points out a way in which it could improve, especially with an proven example from the rest of the world, the mental shutters come crashing down, and it's assumed that you're "hateful". Like trying to help someone do the beneficial thing that other people do is an act of hate now? It makes sense only as pure projection.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
    A: "The USA's banking infrastructure lags global best practices, and many commenters here do not realise that, assuming that it must be the same or worse elsewhere, and that their proposed solutions or upgrades are relevant, when they are in fact often not. Proof by example of a better way forward exists." B: "Why do you hate America!!" This is of course, the kind of reasoned response that you typically get from someone with a strong logical argument.
SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
> The ease and affordability of transferring remittances internationally is the single most useful case for Bitcoin. This is demonstratably false. The problem has been solved elsewhere in the world, much better than in the US, without any bitcoin or crypto at all. > In the US it can still take days for a check or transfer to clear. As noted, "in the US" is your problem. Also "hasty generalisation". > In the future I expect to see BTC to mainly utilized for these types of financial transfers wise.com is laughing. M-Pesa is laughing. EU SEPA is laughing.
- macinjosh 4y ago
  > wise.com is laughing. M-Pesa is laughing. EU SEPA is laughing. Not sure how SEPA helps an immigrant in the US trying to send money back home. Or a million other situations not involving places that have SEPA. Your other options are greedy corporations. Wise wants $7 to transfer 1000 bucks to Europe. Bitcoin will continue working if corporations fail, change policies, arbitrarily decide not to do business with you, or jack up prices. Bitcoin is not subject to the whims of a single private organization. Government sponsored options are also beholden to all sorts of invasive inspection as well. If you want to send more than $10k it can be a lot more work in some places.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
    > Or a million other situations not involving places that have SEPA. And the way forward for those places is more like SEPA, than like bitcoin. That's the point. There exist better solutions to these than the US has, many commenters are oblivious, and these solutions don't look like Bitcoin.
piva00 4y ago
> In the future I expect to see BTC to mainly utilized for these types of financial transfers and less as a long-term store of value. I have, in Sweden, the options of Swish and SEPA to transfer money. Swish is internal to Swedish residents, so to anyone who has Swish tied to their bank account I can instantly send money knowing their phone number. With SEPA Instant Transfer I can send money anywhere in the EU, up to 100,000€, and it's guaranteed it takes less than 10 seconds. These have been solved elsewhere, look inside the US who benefits from the fees charged to you, look who controls the lobbying power to keep these fees being charged to you. Boom, you now know that in the US the biggest limitation is always who has more money than you and control the policies you live under. It's the same in other parts of the world, of course, but so much worse in the US...
- scotty79 4y ago
  SEPA takes 10 seconds? My bank only guarantees it'll reach recipient in 24h and I have strong suspicion they only mean business days.
  - piva00 4y ago
    SEPA Instant Transfer takes 10 seconds, a normal SEPA Transfer takes 1 business day [0]. [0] https://www.paysera.com/v2/en/blog/what-is-sepa https://www.paysera.com/v2/en/blog/what-is-sepa
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
    > SEPA takes 10 seconds? Yep. I see similar (or lower) timings for 2 or 3 digit amounts transferred between accounts in the same country (UK).
- trashtester 4y ago
  Absolutely correct. There are plenty of payment solutions like SEPA coming out in different markets, now. Money transfer is a known problem. These work brilliantly in contries that are not controlled by the most tyrannical and/or non-functional regimes, as long as you stay within the law. (Even China has such systems in Alipay and Wechat Pay) So what crypto adds (beyond a hypothetical store of value) is the ability to keep your assets and transactins invisible (or nearly invisible) to the government.

Nursie 4y ago

> In the US Problem identified.

macinjosh 4y ago
Hateful much? Sorry I was born here and not the super awesome perfect place you are from.
- Nursie 4y ago
  Not in the slightest. The US is a fine country. But it lags behind in banking and payments.
  - Nursie 4y ago
    Acrually I take this back, the US is not a fine country, it's an utter mess.
    - SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
      And part of the problem is that whenever someone points out a way in which it could improve, especially with an proven example from the rest of the world, the mental shutters come crashing down, and it's assumed that you're "hateful". Like trying to help someone do the beneficial thing that other people do is an act of hate now? It makes sense only as pure projection.
- SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
  A: "The USA's banking infrastructure lags global best practices, and many commenters here do not realise that, assuming that it must be the same or worse elsewhere, and that their proposed solutions or upgrades are relevant, when they are in fact often not. Proof by example of a better way forward exists." B: "Why do you hate America!!" This is of course, the kind of reasoned response that you typically get from someone with a strong logical argument.

SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago

> The ease and affordability of transferring remittances internationally is the single most useful case for Bitcoin. This is demonstratably false. The problem has been solved elsewhere in the world, much better than in the US, without any bitcoin or crypto at all. > In the US it can still take days for a check or transfer to clear. As noted, "in the US" is your problem. Also "hasty generalisation". > In the future I expect to see BTC to mainly utilized for these types of financial transfers wise.com is laughing. M-Pesa is laughing. EU SEPA is laughing.

macinjosh 4y ago
> wise.com is laughing. M-Pesa is laughing. EU SEPA is laughing. Not sure how SEPA helps an immigrant in the US trying to send money back home. Or a million other situations not involving places that have SEPA. Your other options are greedy corporations. Wise wants $7 to transfer 1000 bucks to Europe. Bitcoin will continue working if corporations fail, change policies, arbitrarily decide not to do business with you, or jack up prices. Bitcoin is not subject to the whims of a single private organization. Government sponsored options are also beholden to all sorts of invasive inspection as well. If you want to send more than $10k it can be a lot more work in some places.
- SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
  > Or a million other situations not involving places that have SEPA. And the way forward for those places is more like SEPA, than like bitcoin. That's the point. There exist better solutions to these than the US has, many commenters are oblivious, and these solutions don't look like Bitcoin.

piva00 4y ago

> In the future I expect to see BTC to mainly utilized for these types of financial transfers and less as a long-term store of value. I have, in Sweden, the options of Swish and SEPA to transfer money. Swish is internal to Swedish residents, so to anyone who has Swish tied to their bank account I can instantly send money knowing their phone number. With SEPA Instant Transfer I can send money anywhere in the EU, up to 100,000€, and it's guaranteed it takes less than 10 seconds. These have been solved elsewhere, look inside the US who benefits from the fees charged to you, look who controls the lobbying power to keep these fees being charged to you. Boom, you now know that in the US the biggest limitation is always who has more money than you and control the policies you live under. It's the same in other parts of the world, of course, but so much worse in the US...

scotty79 4y ago
SEPA takes 10 seconds? My bank only guarantees it'll reach recipient in 24h and I have strong suspicion they only mean business days.
- piva00 4y ago
  SEPA Instant Transfer takes 10 seconds, a normal SEPA Transfer takes 1 business day [0]. [0] https://www.paysera.com/v2/en/blog/what-is-sepa https://www.paysera.com/v2/en/blog/what-is-sepa
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
  > SEPA takes 10 seconds? Yep. I see similar (or lower) timings for 2 or 3 digit amounts transferred between accounts in the same country (UK).
trashtester 4y ago
Absolutely correct. There are plenty of payment solutions like SEPA coming out in different markets, now. Money transfer is a known problem. These work brilliantly in contries that are not controlled by the most tyrannical and/or non-functional regimes, as long as you stay within the law. (Even China has such systems in Alipay and Wechat Pay) So what crypto adds (beyond a hypothetical store of value) is the ability to keep your assets and transactins invisible (or nearly invisible) to the government.