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> I eat food because it fills my belly, not because it looks good. Why can't we fill our bellies with food that doesn't involve exploiting and killing other se

> I eat food because it fills my belly, not because it looks good. Why can't we fill our bellies with food that doesn't involve exploiting and killing other sentient animals? If you have your own farm then ignore the above. It's a general question regarding the global food production. But not everyone can have their own farm - so that way of life is not scalable - if the majority of 9B people want to eat meat. It can only become sustainable, if it becomes extremely expensive and demand is curbed. > And, no, you're never gonna get there with vegan nut paste Never say never - we humans are quite ingenious and finding ways to do things better. > Highest- among all types of food we're currently producing. > I consider every vegan who tells me meat destroys the environment to be dishonest It's not just GHG, but also: - Greater water usage required for meat & dairy diet - Biodiversity loss - Deforestation - Soil degradation The IPCC recommends a shift towards a more plant-based diet to mitigate the climate crisis. So are you calling hundreds of climate scientist dishonest? Here are plenty of resources to back up the claim that our current meat heavy diets are destructive and that a global shift to a plant-based diet is required to avert climate catastrophe. https://www.ipcc.ch/srccl/chapter/chapter-5/ https://www.ipcc.ch/srccl/chapter/chapter-5/ Here are some quotes from experts in the field: Dr Peter Carter, IPCC expert reviewer and Director of the Climate Emergency Institute stated: “The science is definite, global climate catastrophe cannot be averted without the elimination of meat and dairy in our diet, and that must happen fast.” Courtney Vail, Campaign Director at Oceanic Preservation Society, added: “Changing our diets from a focus on animal-based to plant-based products is one of the most powerful things we can do to positively impact the world. Animal agriculture utilizes precious water resources, releases climate-altering greenhouse gases into the atmosphere, and reduces the planet’s ability to sequester carbon by destroying diverse ecosystems.”

cheese_goddess 4y ago
> Why can't we fill our bellies with food that doesn't involve exploiting and killing other sentient animals? Nah, you're moving the goal posts just to get a chance to say your little propaganda slogan. What I asked was: "I don't get why you have to eat fake food when you're vegan? ". You want to talk about that? Because that's what I want to know. You don't want to eat meat? OK. You don't want to eat dairy? Then don't! But you want to eat fake cheese and fake meat? I mean, still, it's none of my business what you eat, knock yourself out. But, why? Fake is fake. It should be obvious why it's ... fake? > So are you calling hundreds of climate scientist dishonest? No, I'm calling you and other internet vegans dishonest, because you're using environmental issues as a cover to promote your vegan agenda. Btw, "hundreds of climate scientists" don't say we should all go vegan to save the environment, like vegans like to pretend. The IPCC report you linked doesn't say anything like that. Environmental activists don't even say anything like that. What environmental scientists say is that a shift is needed towards a plant based diet. That is the kind of diet I eat: 2/3s plants and 1/3 animal foods (dairy, meat, seafood, etc). But vegans like you are trying really hard to fudge the meaning of "plant-based" to make it synonymous with "vegan". And it's obvious why you're doing it: now all the environmental scientists who say a shift to a plant-based diet is needed are suddendly advocating for veganism! That is the dishonesty I'm talking about. It's the same kind of dishonesty and the same kind of social engineering tactic as calling nut paste "cheese". Well, your silly little games aren't paying off. Meat consumption keeps increasing. CAFOs keep getting built. Animals keep getting tortured. Scores of people sign up for Veganuary and go back to devouring burgers and sausages as soon as they have. Instagram is full of fashionable vegans and yet the vast majority of the population are not even vegetarian, not even flexitarian. Dishonesty doesn't work. You can't have your cake and eat it. Either you tell people the truth, and nothing but the truth, and you hope they can do the right thing, or you keep lying and they keep ignoring you as extreme fanatical zealots.
- uxcolumbo 4y ago
  It's not fake. It's just an alternative that doesn't involve killing animals. For example, beyond burgers or impossible burgers, helps meat eaters who want to reduce their environmental footprint, transition to a more plant-based diet. Or say you want to have spaghetti bolognese - instead of using minced animal meat you use an plant-based alternative which is better. And most people don't notice a difference these days. Or say chicken nuggets - the plant based alternative - pretty amazing and in blind tests most people couldn't tell. Food science is pretty amazing these days. So what's wrong with that? I personally don't need those products, as I don't have a craving for meat or dairy. But I have them some times. But others do crave it, but they don't want to support factory farms - so these plant-based alternative products help. And what is vegan propaganda? All veganism does is promote a life style that's free from cruelty as much as possible. What is wrong with reducing cruelty and environmental destruction?
  - cheese_goddess 4y ago
    > Or say chicken nuggets - the plant based alternative - pretty amazing and in blind tests most people couldn't tell. Because chicken nuggets are shit food and they don't even taste like chicken anyway. That's because they're made with pink slurry, bits of chicken mechanically separated from bones and chemically treated until they're transformed into a vile, noxious paste, the lowest-grade meat that is allowed for human consumption. That's why they're so cheap. Here, this is how chicken nuggets are made: https://youtu.be/kS3kmulj20M?t=621 https://youtu.be/kS3kmulj20M?t=621 And here's a little close up: https://youtu.be/kS3kmulj20M?t=654 https://youtu.be/kS3kmulj20M?t=654 Aaw. Isn't food science amazing these days? That's what your vegan nuggets replace. And they do a great job at it! Because they're equally shit. Fake food replacing fake food for people who don't know what real food tastes like anymore. That is the dystopian reality we live in, but for vegans it's paradise. > And what is vegan propaganda? Oh, well, for example lying about the role of meat production in environmental destruction and trying to get people to believe it's farming that's destroying the environment rather than buring fossil fuels. That's propaganda, and it's dangerous propaganda from people who care not a shit about the environment and only care about meat meat meat.

cheese_goddess 4y ago

> Why can't we fill our bellies with food that doesn't involve exploiting and killing other sentient animals? Nah, you're moving the goal posts just to get a chance to say your little propaganda slogan. What I asked was: "I don't get why you have to eat fake food when you're vegan? ". You want to talk about that? Because that's what I want to know. You don't want to eat meat? OK. You don't want to eat dairy? Then don't! But you want to eat fake cheese and fake meat? I mean, still, it's none of my business what you eat, knock yourself out. But, why? Fake is fake. It should be obvious why it's ... fake? > So are you calling hundreds of climate scientist dishonest? No, I'm calling you and other internet vegans dishonest, because you're using environmental issues as a cover to promote your vegan agenda. Btw, "hundreds of climate scientists" don't say we should all go vegan to save the environment, like vegans like to pretend. The IPCC report you linked doesn't say anything like that. Environmental activists don't even say anything like that. What environmental scientists say is that a shift is needed towards a plant based diet. That is the kind of diet I eat: 2/3s plants and 1/3 animal foods (dairy, meat, seafood, etc). But vegans like you are trying really hard to fudge the meaning of "plant-based" to make it synonymous with "vegan". And it's obvious why you're doing it: now all the environmental scientists who say a shift to a plant-based diet is needed are suddendly advocating for veganism! That is the dishonesty I'm talking about. It's the same kind of dishonesty and the same kind of social engineering tactic as calling nut paste "cheese". Well, your silly little games aren't paying off. Meat consumption keeps increasing. CAFOs keep getting built. Animals keep getting tortured. Scores of people sign up for Veganuary and go back to devouring burgers and sausages as soon as they have. Instagram is full of fashionable vegans and yet the vast majority of the population are not even vegetarian, not even flexitarian. Dishonesty doesn't work. You can't have your cake and eat it. Either you tell people the truth, and nothing but the truth, and you hope they can do the right thing, or you keep lying and they keep ignoring you as extreme fanatical zealots.

uxcolumbo 4y ago
It's not fake. It's just an alternative that doesn't involve killing animals. For example, beyond burgers or impossible burgers, helps meat eaters who want to reduce their environmental footprint, transition to a more plant-based diet. Or say you want to have spaghetti bolognese - instead of using minced animal meat you use an plant-based alternative which is better. And most people don't notice a difference these days. Or say chicken nuggets - the plant based alternative - pretty amazing and in blind tests most people couldn't tell. Food science is pretty amazing these days. So what's wrong with that? I personally don't need those products, as I don't have a craving for meat or dairy. But I have them some times. But others do crave it, but they don't want to support factory farms - so these plant-based alternative products help. And what is vegan propaganda? All veganism does is promote a life style that's free from cruelty as much as possible. What is wrong with reducing cruelty and environmental destruction?
- cheese_goddess 4y ago
  > Or say chicken nuggets - the plant based alternative - pretty amazing and in blind tests most people couldn't tell. Because chicken nuggets are shit food and they don't even taste like chicken anyway. That's because they're made with pink slurry, bits of chicken mechanically separated from bones and chemically treated until they're transformed into a vile, noxious paste, the lowest-grade meat that is allowed for human consumption. That's why they're so cheap. Here, this is how chicken nuggets are made: https://youtu.be/kS3kmulj20M?t=621 https://youtu.be/kS3kmulj20M?t=621 And here's a little close up: https://youtu.be/kS3kmulj20M?t=654 https://youtu.be/kS3kmulj20M?t=654 Aaw. Isn't food science amazing these days? That's what your vegan nuggets replace. And they do a great job at it! Because they're equally shit. Fake food replacing fake food for people who don't know what real food tastes like anymore. That is the dystopian reality we live in, but for vegans it's paradise. > And what is vegan propaganda? Oh, well, for example lying about the role of meat production in environmental destruction and trying to get people to believe it's farming that's destroying the environment rather than buring fossil fuels. That's propaganda, and it's dangerous propaganda from people who care not a shit about the environment and only care about meat meat meat.