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I recommend the autobiographical, category defining book on street work - Pimp: The Story of My Life by Iceberg Slim. [0] It’s dystopian and might be a hard re

by dfee 4y ago

I recommend the autobiographical, category defining book on street work - Pimp: The Story of My Life by Iceberg Slim. [0] It’s dystopian and might be a hard read for some of you, but it might rectify a lot of the idealistic visions of what this work looks like. It’s violence and predation all the way up and down. It’s hard to see how California isn’t failing the people and communities it claims to stand up for. [0] https://www.amazon.com/Pimp-Story-Life-Iceberg-Slim/dp/1451617135 https://www.amazon.com/Pimp-Story-Life-Iceberg-Slim/dp/14516... Read the “popular highlights” for a quick introduction.

upsidesinclude 4y ago
That's the facts and of course the comment is getting down voted. People want to talk about their beliefs and feelings without having to know what this stuff looks like in real life. The abstraction makes it all palatable. This might seem like a good idea abstractly, but it means more pimps can make more money and they aren't good folks.
- rofo1 4y ago
  Why don't people start off with their own sons and daughters, I wonder? I want to see the man here that wants to give his daughter to the world, to be used by all kinds of men for some cash. I've got a hard trouble believing any well adjusted, sane man (or woman) will have no problems with it. Doesn't matter what adjective we use ("you are not progressive enough"). Nobody cares. Well, these "sex workers" are someone's daughter, too. I wish I could grasp just how much % of people exist that actually believe this insanity that is rampant in 2020's. Is it a case of a loud minority, or (majority of) people really believe this is how life should be lived?
- PickledHotdog 4y ago
  Nice feelings you have there. Why can't we legalise sex work and cut a lot of pimps out of the equation? Maintain a "ban" on street walking, but allow brothels and escorting. What is prostitution anyway? A coal miner sells his body in similar ways to a prostitute. Why can't we legalise drugs and cut cartels and gangs out of the equation? Personal use amounts, manufactured and taxed like other drugs (alcohol, cigarettes etc) Why can't we legalise abortion and cut backyard operators out of the equation? Why should your moral stances take precedence over the safety of others? You can't legislate behaviours away. They're going to happen. We've been taking drugs for 10s of 1000s of years. We've been trading our bodies for benefits for at least a few thousand. These actions are largely harmless. Let's realise that making them illegal is a large part of what makes them dangerous.
  - fritztastic 4y ago
    I was about to write something similar, but your comment did so much more eloquently than anything I'd be capable of producing. My ultimate viewpoint is that criminalization makes criminals and a lot of people want sex workers and drug users (there are others, of course) to be considered criminals and be treated as such. I don't see the societal benefit of this, as it just leads to illicit systems taking place that serve to exploit people. Sex work isn't harmful, but sex trafficking and abuse are- there is definitely a way to allow people to participate in sex work with dignity and protection from exploitation- and criminalizing sex work only contributes to forcing people into situations where they operate in shady unregulated realms where the control rests with organized crime instead of giving that control to the sex workers themselves. Because they can't operate legitimately, and the status of criminalization comes with stigma and marginalization that further create more issues rather than solving any issues. People will buy sex and people will sell sex, they have been doing so since time immemorial regardless of the law- so IMO the priority should be in making sex work safe, focusing LE and CJ systems toward human trafficking, exploitation, abuse, and slavery instead.
  - upsidesinclude 4y ago
    The only 'feelings' I may have represented is that pimps are bad people. You are abstracting and failing to see that there are abusers and manipulators in the world. 'Cut it out', yeah, no kidding. It's just that easy too
PickledHotdog 4y ago
Oh weird. Having read the book, I agree it's a tough read. But would it have been the same if prostitution was legalised (or at least decriminalised) and regulated? I doubt it very much. Sex work can be made far safer. A holier than thou blanket ban on legalisation of sex work will only guarantee that it won't become safer. Similar to drug use, if we as societies continue to pretend that people won't partake in drugs because there are laws against it, all we're doing is ensuring drug use is more dangerous. If you don't want to be a sex worker, don't be one. If you don't want to take drugs, don't take them (though I'm sure many anti-drug types enjoy a whiskey or 10). But don't pretend you're doing people a favour by refusing to entertain the idea of legalising largely harmless behaviours. You're just ensuring that the actions which are going to happen regardless are more dangerous for those involved. A bit like abortion, really.

by dfee 4y ago

upsidesinclude 4y ago

That's the facts and of course the comment is getting down voted. People want to talk about their beliefs and feelings without having to know what this stuff looks like in real life. The abstraction makes it all palatable. This might seem like a good idea abstractly, but it means more pimps can make more money and they aren't good folks.

rofo1 4y ago
Why don't people start off with their own sons and daughters, I wonder? I want to see the man here that wants to give his daughter to the world, to be used by all kinds of men for some cash. I've got a hard trouble believing any well adjusted, sane man (or woman) will have no problems with it. Doesn't matter what adjective we use ("you are not progressive enough"). Nobody cares. Well, these "sex workers" are someone's daughter, too. I wish I could grasp just how much % of people exist that actually believe this insanity that is rampant in 2020's. Is it a case of a loud minority, or (majority of) people really believe this is how life should be lived?
PickledHotdog 4y ago
Nice feelings you have there. Why can't we legalise sex work and cut a lot of pimps out of the equation? Maintain a "ban" on street walking, but allow brothels and escorting. What is prostitution anyway? A coal miner sells his body in similar ways to a prostitute. Why can't we legalise drugs and cut cartels and gangs out of the equation? Personal use amounts, manufactured and taxed like other drugs (alcohol, cigarettes etc) Why can't we legalise abortion and cut backyard operators out of the equation? Why should your moral stances take precedence over the safety of others? You can't legislate behaviours away. They're going to happen. We've been taking drugs for 10s of 1000s of years. We've been trading our bodies for benefits for at least a few thousand. These actions are largely harmless. Let's realise that making them illegal is a large part of what makes them dangerous.
- fritztastic 4y ago
  I was about to write something similar, but your comment did so much more eloquently than anything I'd be capable of producing. My ultimate viewpoint is that criminalization makes criminals and a lot of people want sex workers and drug users (there are others, of course) to be considered criminals and be treated as such. I don't see the societal benefit of this, as it just leads to illicit systems taking place that serve to exploit people. Sex work isn't harmful, but sex trafficking and abuse are- there is definitely a way to allow people to participate in sex work with dignity and protection from exploitation- and criminalizing sex work only contributes to forcing people into situations where they operate in shady unregulated realms where the control rests with organized crime instead of giving that control to the sex workers themselves. Because they can't operate legitimately, and the status of criminalization comes with stigma and marginalization that further create more issues rather than solving any issues. People will buy sex and people will sell sex, they have been doing so since time immemorial regardless of the law- so IMO the priority should be in making sex work safe, focusing LE and CJ systems toward human trafficking, exploitation, abuse, and slavery instead.
- upsidesinclude 4y ago
  The only 'feelings' I may have represented is that pimps are bad people. You are abstracting and failing to see that there are abusers and manipulators in the world. 'Cut it out', yeah, no kidding. It's just that easy too

PickledHotdog 4y ago

Oh weird. Having read the book, I agree it's a tough read. But would it have been the same if prostitution was legalised (or at least decriminalised) and regulated? I doubt it very much. Sex work can be made far safer. A holier than thou blanket ban on legalisation of sex work will only guarantee that it won't become safer. Similar to drug use, if we as societies continue to pretend that people won't partake in drugs because there are laws against it, all we're doing is ensuring drug use is more dangerous. If you don't want to be a sex worker, don't be one. If you don't want to take drugs, don't take them (though I'm sure many anti-drug types enjoy a whiskey or 10). But don't pretend you're doing people a favour by refusing to entertain the idea of legalising largely harmless behaviours. You're just ensuring that the actions which are going to happen regardless are more dangerous for those involved. A bit like abortion, really.