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It is a similar myth with Roman cement and, to some extent, Greek Fire. We know how it was made (with some assumptions when it come to greek fire), what was the
by maeln 4y ago
It is a similar myth with Roman cement and, to some extent, Greek Fire.
We know how it was made (with some assumptions when it come to greek fire), what was the main ingredient and composition and we know how to make it much much better than they did.
But the legend continues even after many debunking because we love a good story of ancient arcane art that was lost in time.
- Nursie 4y agoI was under the impression with Roman concrete that we modern folks can reverse engineer it and understand it just fine, but that the art was lost for 1k+ years. Is this a myth I have fallen for?
- serverlessmom 4y agoThe myth that persists to this day is "the Romans made better concrete that not even we, with all our science, can match." It's perfectly true that medieval Europeans had no idea how to make roman concrete.
- Nursie 4y agoAh right, thanks for the clarification there :)
- Jun8 4y agoAgreed on Roman cement but AFAIK there is no definitive explanation of ingredients for Greek fire, e.g. to explain how contact with water actually fed the flames. The Wikipedia article has an extensive section in the manufacture but it’s all very speculative.
- pilsetnieks 4y agoI think it stems simply from a (possibly willful) misinterpretation in pop culture. Instead of reporting that "we don't know how they made this amazing (for its time) material" they reported that "we don't know how to make it" and it gives rise to further fantastical hypotheses, culminating with ancient aliens or something along those lines.
- jaclaz 4y agoAbout Roman cement, maybe we know how it was made, BUT for a number of reasons we decided to use other types of cement that not necessarily are "better" than the Roman one, particularly when it comes to durability. The ubiquitous modern Portland cement and concrete made with it hardens faster and has initially a higher resistance. Modern Pozzolanic cements, more similar to the Roman ones, are in practice very rarely used, even if they have most of the properties of the old Roman ones (longer time to harden, hardness/resistance increasing over the years, generally much better resistance to water).
- oblio 4y agoConcrete made from Portland cement lasts at least 100 years and generally we don't need more. If anything, we want the flexibility of stuff that "only" lasts around 100 years, because you know, due to new tech and changing economies, we want to be able to model our cities periodically. And Portland cement is cheaper and can be made in much larger quantities. This is kind of a recurring story with these topics: we know how to make it "better", but we don't really need that "better", we do need "cheaper" and "higher availability" instead.
- trashtester 4y ago> Concrete made from Portland cement lasts at least 100 years and generally we don't need more. "We" may not need more (as en "we" that are alive today). But future generations would thank us if we would make structures that would last for 500+ years instead of 100 years. Much better for the very long term economy AND the climate.
- jefftk 4y agoWe don't have a very good idea what sort of structures people will want in 500+ years, and there are lots of better ways we can turn money into improving life for people centuries in the future (primarily in trying to reduce the risk humanity goes extinct before then).
- hannasanarion 4y ago
- Waterluvian 4y agoSounds about right. “Damascus steel” is very highly romanticized in the forging/sword making communities online.