3 ms·

It's a bit odd that the article defines the "lost" art form as the crucible steel, and not folded steel, and then goes on to prove that it hasn't been lost. But

It's a bit odd that the article defines the "lost" art form as the crucible steel, and not folded steel, and then goes on to prove that it hasn't been lost. But the claim I've always heard is that the exact recipie for the folded steel has been lost. You can make identical looking folded steel, but it is apparently difficult to make folded steel that has the exact composition of the antiques.

toolslive 4y ago
It depends on what you want: we don't know exactly what they did. However, we can produce better steel no matter what criterium you have for stiffness, strength, corrosion or oxidation resistance (sorry I'm just guessing the English terminology here, I'm not a native speaker)
- captainmuon 4y ago
  Right, it is like we 'lost' the exact recipe for certain paints. We can create much more vibrant, durable, repeatable paints with modern chemistry, but we don't know exactly how they did it. Of course neither ancient painters nor blacksmiths were great chemists, but they had certain heuristics they used to use to create their stuff. I think it is not a case of "we can't make steel / paint / buildings as good" but rather we don't know what their process was. It's more of historical interest.
denton-scratch 4y ago
That was my reaction; the "Damascus" steel whose art has been lost isn't crucible steel, whose art was never lost; it's folded steel. [Edit] Incidentally, I supposed the name "Damascus" was related to the patterned silk fabric named "damask", rather than the origin of the material being the Damascus area.
thereddaikon 4y ago
Folding steel never went away and was independently invented in several different cultures around the world.
stonemetal12 4y ago
The problem with that is they weren't great chemists. So we don't have the exact recipe, but neither did they. It isn't lost knowledge, it was never had knowledge. If someone really wanted to know they could get a complete chemical analysis of a sample.

toolslive 4y ago

It depends on what you want: we don't know exactly what they did. However, we can produce better steel no matter what criterium you have for stiffness, strength, corrosion or oxidation resistance (sorry I'm just guessing the English terminology here, I'm not a native speaker)

captainmuon 4y ago
Right, it is like we 'lost' the exact recipe for certain paints. We can create much more vibrant, durable, repeatable paints with modern chemistry, but we don't know exactly how they did it. Of course neither ancient painters nor blacksmiths were great chemists, but they had certain heuristics they used to use to create their stuff. I think it is not a case of "we can't make steel / paint / buildings as good" but rather we don't know what their process was. It's more of historical interest.

denton-scratch 4y ago

That was my reaction; the "Damascus" steel whose art has been lost isn't crucible steel, whose art was never lost; it's folded steel. [Edit] Incidentally, I supposed the name "Damascus" was related to the patterned silk fabric named "damask", rather than the origin of the material being the Damascus area.

thereddaikon 4y ago

Folding steel never went away and was independently invented in several different cultures around the world.

stonemetal12 4y ago

The problem with that is they weren't great chemists. So we don't have the exact recipe, but neither did they. It isn't lost knowledge, it was never had knowledge. If someone really wanted to know they could get a complete chemical analysis of a sample.