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Introducing GitHub Enterprise
- ayanb 15y ago>> "GitHub Enterprise is priced at $5,000 per 20 users" How does this fare against other enterprise hosted scm/version control products?
- xbryanx 15y agoNot exactly analogous, but FishEye from Atlassian is less money/user and LOTS less money for teams less than 10. http://www.atlassian.com/software/fisheye/pricing http://www.atlassian.com/software/fisheye/pricing Obviously, the feature set is pretty different, but I think it still falls into the Enterprise SCM category.
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- Argorak 15y agoFisheye is $800 for 10 users, $1200 for 20, plus the required JIRA install, which is $1200. Add a Wiki component (Confluence) and you can add another $800. The proper code reviewing tool (Crucible) is $800/$1200. Thats (roughly) the feature set of Github, without the source hosting/ssh-key-management stuff. So summed up: 10 Users: $3600 20 Users: $4400 So, they are definitely cheaper, but I'd say that $5000 for 20 users is a competitive price for such a huge infrastructure.
- azov 15y agoAtlassian also has bitbucket, which is a direct competitor to github and priced at $10/month for 10 developers or $25/month for 25 developers. So, it's only $240 a year for 20 developers (https://bitbucket.org/plans https://bitbucket.org/plans). It may not have all the features of github, but they provide basic git hosting, wiki, and issue tracking. Do the extra features of github justify 20x higher price? They also have a free plan for up to 5 developers.
- X-Istence 15y agoIs Bitbucket something I can install on my own hardware behind my corporate firewall?
- biot 15y agoThe Starter Program covers the first 10 users for all but one of their products for $10 (each product, downloadable version) with proceeds going to Room to Read: http://www.atlassian.com/software/starter/overview http://www.atlassian.com/software/starter/overview So if your team is 10 users or less, you get all of Atlassian's products for $100.
- ConstantineXVI 15y agoFishEye actually has built-in git management as of the last release, but everything else stands. Plus, FishEye's git handling has always been a bit odd, particularly how it handles branches.
- Jd 15y agoA bit confused why you think that is the same feature set of Github. The core product here is JIRA and everything else is accessories. What does Github give you in the way of project/ticket management? Also what is the Crucible equivalent?
- Argorak 15y agoI wrote that this is _roughly_ the same feature set. The equivalent for Code review in Github is the fork/pull request/compare mechanic, which can be used in between repositories as well. Ticket management: Github Tickets. It also has basic support for Milestone planning etc.
- mikey_p 15y agoI would say that one major distinction is that Github is a tool designed to manage repos and make sharing code easier, with a ticket tracker bolted on. The whole Altassian suite is centered on JIRA, so it's more of a ticket tracker with code viewing and review tools bolted on. It's a subtle but not insignificant difference and depending on your needs, either one could be a good fit.
- jcdavis 15y agoAt, $250/user/year its cheaper than any published perforce pricing (from http://www.perforce.com/purchase# http://www.perforce.com/purchase#) Of course perforce is about as expensive as it gets for enterprise vcs
- varikin 15y agoPreforce is a steal compared to Clearcase (https://www-112.ibm.com/software/howtobuy/buyingtools/paexpress/Express?P0=E1&part_number=D5315LL,D0BH1LL,D0BH2LL&catalogLocale=en_US&Locale=en_US&country=USA&PT=html https://www-112.ibm.com/software/howtobuy/buyingtools/paexpr...) which is from 2500 to 5000 a user.
- ajross 15y ago$250/seat/year is actually fairly cheap for enterprise development products. The administration cost in IT staff is likely to be much higher. It sounds good, though I guess my fear would be that git's mindshare in the kind of locked-down IT environments this is targetted at is still fairly low. Clearcase still rules in that world, and a SCM system is among the least flexible infrastructure items.
- taylorbuley 15y agoWe're using Gitorious at Forbes, which has been great for us. $5k is more expensive than free, but I think Github has the development community mindshare (more free tools) and, in some cases, a technology advantage, such as managing pull requests.
- taylorbuley 15y agoInteresting to see they are forwarding links from the Firewall Install page (fi.github.com) to this. Edit: We first launched the precursor to GitHub Enterprise, GitHub Firewall Install, over two years ago. Same pricing, but better branding. I wonder what else has changed?
- bostonvaulter2 15y agoThe OVF format is a large change.
- kneath 15y agoNotably: - Enterprise is delivered in an OVF, which means it's a fully contained VM. This simplifies deployments astronomically from the previous FI architecture. - We've spent a lot of time on the runtime and packaging of Enterprise in relation to how it runs the code. It's now much faster. - We've changed how we merge the two codebases (.com and FI/Enterprise). Effectively, they are the same now. This means new features that come to .com will come to Enterprise quickly/immediately. Previously we had to do hard, manual merges which meant new features got to FI very late (3, 6, 8 months later).
- taylorbuley 15y agoThanks for jumping in! Are there screenshots of this customer dashboard available anywhere? GitHub Enterprise is the latest release of our on-premise product with a re-engineered back end and our new customer dashboard.
- dpritchett 15y agoI'm a huge fan of apps released as VM images. I've seen this used extensively in testing and development, but not for production applications. Do you know of other companies who follow the same "our default install is an OVF" strategy? I first heard the idea from Jeff Atwood in 2006 [1], neat to see the idea taking root with a high-profile product. [1] http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2006/01/our-virtual-machine-future.html http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2006/01/our-virtual-machine...
- joshaidan 15y agoI love felixge's comment on a bug he found with the price estimator: https://github.com/blog/978-introducing-github-enterprise#comment-15008 https://github.com/blog/978-introducing-github-enterprise#co...
- ludwigvan 15y agoHow do they ensure that their code is not stolen? Any insights on that?
- oscardelben 15y agoWhat makes github great is the execution and the community, I think any decent team could clone Github as it's now given enough time.
- bitsweet 15y agoThey obfuscate with JRuby. Mingle, also a ruby based tool, does this too.
- maratd 15y agoIt's written using Ruby on Rails and Erlang. My guess is that it's compiled or partially compiled. You can probably hack it and decompile it, but for all that work, you might as well just use an open source alternative.
- holman 15y agoFirewall Install used JRuby to precompile our models and controllers; GitHub Enterprise uses code obfuscation with MRI.
- ryeguy 15y agoWhy didn't you choose to go the JRuby route again?
- holman 15y agoA lot of reasons, but the largest was that part of the big push for Enterprise was to mimic our github.com environment as much as possible. Every difference between the two is a real cost to support. A different Ruby interpreter definitely falls into the "big difference" category. :)
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- intranation 15y agoI hope they're going to offer pro rata on seat volumes between multiples of 20. If I have just 25 users it's $10,000 (assuming their pricing widget is completely accurate).
- seiji 15y agoEnterprise pricing. Learn it, live it, love it. (the point of block pricing is to extract some extra revenue from people in your situation. as a bonus, you get a slight user-license runway so you can add people without paying more if you are in the middle of a license block. also, some companies vastly overestimate their users and will order much more capacity than needed. free money is the best money.)
- jvehent 15y agoIf you have 25 devs, you're going to spend a minimum of 1.5/2 millions a years on salaries. Does a $5,000 difference really matters at that point ?
- redthrowaway 15y agoIf two of those devs decided to throw their workstations off the roof once a year, would the $5000 make a difference? Spending money you don't have to is always a bad idea, so while the unused license space may not make a huge dent on the bottom line, a company that pays attention to those things will likely outperform one that doesn't.
- intranation 15y agoNot 25 devs (although that doesn't necessarily change the salary question) - if you want to go "full GitHub" and use the issue tracker for everything, you want all your staff to have access.
- dotBen 15y agoYeah but you also wound't want to run an equal number of seats to developers either. If you hire a new dev there is a time + $ cost to raising the PO to allow the procurement of a new seat, etc. Additionally, you usually financially plan for annual spend so you would budget for the total number of seats needed by the end of the financial year.
- Corrado 15y agoMy first thought is who needs "social" features in an enterprise VCS? I love GitHub and think it's biggest benefit is the ability to {easily} fork and watch projects. Does this really translate to the enterprise? I can't imagine a corporation where its a good think to have two groups disagreeing on a direction and causing a fork. Management would have a cow! The bottom line is what does GitHub Enterprise buy my over something like Redmine or Gitorious? GHE is probably easier to install but I still have to manage my own hardware & drive space. And with the open source alternatives I don't have to worry about licensing and can crack it open to add adapters to other software (#include "standard open source header").
- bengl3rt 15y agoI can think of at least one fairly large development organization that has moved to the github model internally - with pull requests and everything. Their developers love it.
- taylorbuley 15y agoOn my team at Forbes we're doing our code reviews via pull requests on Gitorious. The changeset is all there, and you can click a line of code to leave a comment about that line, and there are revisions. It's great. One thing that I believe this product will have that Gitorious does not (to my knowledge) is the ability to create pull requests from branch to branch. The only way I've found for creating pull requests in Gitorious is to clone the whole repo. Not a huge deal, but it would be easier to just to do branch and merge vs. fork and pull (then branch and merge) for smaller changes.
- RowanH 15y agoSo on a team I manage, we've used github::fi (github enterprise looks to be the next evolution) for the past year. If you don't have an option to put code out onto github.com, then it's great to essentially have github.com inhouse - minus of course all the public repos. We find it's the developers go-to place, so using the wiki along with where the source is hosted, is fantastic. As a dev team manager, I love the browsing the codebase via the web browser, reviewing what's going on in the code base instead of pulling down code locally. From a customer, if you've got the funds, and can't go with github.com hosted, then it's the next best thing. It's been rock solid.
- andymoe 15y agoI like Github and use it every day but as a longtime advocate of Fog Creek's software I'm a little sad to see Github continuing to move in on Fogbugz/Kiln territory (not to mention competition from the Australians) with not much response from Fog Creek to compete on the lower end of the market. Github enterprise Pricing/features are about on par with the Fog Creek offering. Git vs. Mercurial but it's still DVCS and though I would consider Fogbugz/Kiln a bit more advanced as far feature implementation all the major types of features are in both products. http://www.fogcreek.com/kiln/for-your-server.html http://www.fogcreek.com/kiln/for-your-server.html What I would REALLY love to see is Fog Creek compete a bit more in Githubs space with their hosted service. I think there is room in the market for a Fogbugz/Kiln lite product and the competition would do everyone, especially the users, a lot of good. I think Joel even wrote an article on pricing and market segmentation [1] unfortunately they may have already figured out the sweet spot with their current price points putting the prices in the range of me being able to get the bank I used to work for to use their product but not the little bootstrapped company where I currently work. [1] http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/CamelsandRubberDuckies.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/CamelsandRubberDuckie...
- pnathan 15y agoFogbugz/Kiln financially scales way better after 40 users. E.g., if you have a 200-user company, that's still a flat rate of 15K initial & 5K/year for Fog Creek's stuff (plus maintenance). But for github, that's 50K/year. Github is a high-quality product, no question about it. But the price is steep compared to Kiln/Fogbugz, IMO.
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- benatkin 15y ago> Fogbugz/Kiln financially scales way better after 40 users. I don't agree with how you're using the word scales. It actually scales fine, as a percent of their budget per employee. It's flat. With GitHub Enterprise it's approximately 250 * (n + n % 20) dollars per year. For companies they're targeting, $250/yr is less than a percent of their total budget per employee (including salary, benefits, workspace, etc). If it saves each employee fifteen minutes a week it's worth it.
- drivebyacct2 15y agoInteresting. $20/month/user seems pretty damn cheap.
- oscardelben 15y agoAnd that includes support.
- jerfelix 15y agoSomeone joked that they'd sell a lot more at $4995. I second that! People, don't under-estimate the issue of signature limits! My old signing limit at one job was $5000, meaning that I needed to get my boss to approve something like this, whereas if it were a dollar cheaper, I could approve it myself. So it's no joke.
- erichocean 15y agoAgree it's no joke. I thought everyone already knew this. Certainly whoever is in charge of sales should.
- aidenn0 15y agoAlso $4995 (or even $4990) is better than $4999 as several large companies audit purchases that are very near the limit.
- tolmasky 15y agoAs I am not "enterprise", these questions are more out of curiosity than anything else: 1. How often do you get updates? One of the things I love about GitHub is the constant stream of new features. Do these make it into github:enterprise fairly soon after? 2. What happens after your "subscription" runs out? That is to say, if I pay for a year, then don't pay next year, do I simply not get any more updates/support? Or is there some kill switch and I lose my content too? I'm sure the answer to this is similar to all enterprise products, but again, I've never experienced anything in the enterprise.
- al3x 15y agoCan't answer the second question, but we haven't gotten very frequent updates. I'm hoping that will change with the transition to Enterprise, but GitHub:FI lagged behind "public" GitHub pretty badly.
- oconnor0 15y agohttp://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3183497 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3183497 says they merged FI/Enterprise, & .com so Enterprise shouldn't lag behind.
- dotBen 15y ago(to question 1...) It's worth considering that if you're an enterprise then you* might not actually want a constant stream of new releases to deal with. Where you = the CTO/CIO/Security/VP Operations, and the purchase decision maker. Many enterprises are (still) anally retentive about acceptance testing any new version from a vendor. You = the engineer definitely do, but sadly in the enterprise world the engineer isn't the customer. Oh, and don't shoot the messenger. I'm not saying I agree with that status quo, simply that if GitHub aspires to make a decent revenue stream from the Enterprise then they'll have to work to those kinds of dynamics.
- kneath 15y ago1. Very frequently. The reason this launch took so long was in large part due to reconfiguring how we merge the differences between .com and the installable (FI/Enterprise). Previously, it was painful and slow and lagged embarrassingly behind. But now it should be no more than a week or a month at most behind .com so long as you upgrade your instance. 2. The instance will lock you out (no web interface, cannot push to repos) but you own all your data so you will never lose your content.
- Jacob4u2 15y agoI'm having a hard time finding comparable Team Foundation Licensing costs for a team of 20. Does anyone have an idea how this compares?
- rafedb 15y agoShouldn't matter if tfs was free, anyone and everyone should prefer a hg/git implementation over it ;p
- goodweeds 15y agoThis sounds like a support nightmare. I hope GitHub has learned from the mistakes that SourceForge ran into when they tried packaging their product for the enterprise.
- chrisaycock 15y agoGitHub has been selling "Firewall Install" for a couple years. Any mistakes they've learned from were on their own.
- ethank 15y agoI like that it is distributed as an OVF, but is there any thought to doing an AMI as well? I know it isn't meant for public use, but in my case I don't want it in the internal datacenter, nor is it easy to bridge subnets in remote offices. An AMI for EC2 deployment behind a VPN would be really nice.
- 286c8cb04bda 15y agoAmazon has tools for importing other virtual machine formats into EC2 -- http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/vmimport/ http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/vmimport/
- nspragmatic 15y ago... none of which are the format in question. > The VM Import process currently supports VMware ESX VMDK images, Citrix Xen VHD images and Microsoft Hyper-V VHD images for Microsoft Windows Server 2003 (R2) and 2008 (R1 & R2).
- 286c8cb04bda 15y agoYou are correct. Fortunately, the format if question is an open specification[1], so you can use a[2] number[3] of[4] tools[5] to convert the OVF to an interim format. That is, obviously, a pretty ugly workaround. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Virtualization_Format http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Virtualization_Format [2] http://www.vmware.com/support/developer/ovf/ http://www.vmware.com/support/developer/ovf/ [3] http://www.citrix.com/english/ss/downloads/details.asp?downloadId=2306318 http://www.citrix.com/english/ss/downloads/details.asp?downl... [4] http://www.virtualbox.org/manual/ch01.html#ovf http://www.virtualbox.org/manual/ch01.html#ovf [5] http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/server-cloud/system-center/virtual-machine-manager.aspx http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/server-cloud/system-center/vi...
- ethank 15y agoI guess you can use the VMWare one to get it to an AMI importable format.
- renownedmedia 15y agoWe've been using a demo of this at my day job for a few weeks now. It's been pretty awesome, we use an internal IRC server (which could never talk to the outside world) and using the hooks it provides is super useful. We also have a complex code pushing system, and integrating with github enterprise will be a bit easier than raw git.
- Corrado 15y agoI wonder if this pricing includes things like read-only users (analysts, QA staff, etc.) and deployment activities in the user count. It would suck to have to pay for a license to deploy from GHE using Capistrano. :/
- jarito 15y agoAt least for FI, all users count towards your user cap. I've asked about this before because it really sucks. For 100 projects we might have 200+ users that don't really need access, but could use it. Since the prices don't get better at the higher levels, it creates and incentive to limit access which reduces the usability of GH in the first place.
- matthewsnyder 15y agoFor those concerned about the total costs: Don't worry. Looks like there's a bit of a discount at the higher levels. http://i.imgur.com/8A9Dx.png http://i.imgur.com/8A9Dx.png
- kellysutton 15y agoWhat we're not really talking about is how good github is as a product. As far as I'm concerned, it's a 10x improvement over other ticketing and SCM systems. I don't think they're charging enough. Congrats guys!
- briancary 15y agoThis news comes just hours after I finished installing Gitorious on my company's own server. I'm glad I went through that trouble because $5k is crazy for a startup to pay for a self-hosted git web interface. Heck, I'll install your own Gitorious on Rackspace Cloud Server for $99 for anyone who requests. Host your own code.
- RandallBrown 15y agoThis isn't for startups. It's for companies that want to use GitHub but can't, because people are afraid of letting the code outside their walls.
- Game_Ender 15y agoOr they are legally required to by their clients and or government regulation.
- sanderson1 15y agoI love GitHub and all, but the whole Enterprise label is kind of a joke. You slap "Enterprise" on a service, make a few nominal features available to the people who buy into the ploy and then charge them out the nose for it.
- makrid 15y agoAgreed, it's strange how people continue to support that kind of marketing.
- tzm 15y agoIt's a product distribution strategy that fills a need in the enterprise marketplace. I wouldn't marginalize OVF as a "nominal feature" or the value of offering a secure, localized version for clients.
- pnathan 15y agoActually, having an internal server host your intellectual property is a big deal in the enterprise.
- perlpimp 15y agoI wonder if it has anything to do with release of http://gitlabhq.com http://gitlabhq.com
- holman 15y agoNope.
- foobarbazetc 15y agoConsidering GitHub:FI has been around for a really long time, no.