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Interesting. I am one year on mostly keto and lost all excessive fat and gained a lot (!) of muscle. And I seem to be burning fat and gain muscle at the same ti

Interesting. I am one year on mostly keto and lost all excessive fat and gained a lot (!) of muscle. And I seem to be burning fat and gain muscle at the same time. One thing to note, I am not sure why would you suggest to remove olive oil. All the research (I’ve seen) suggests that olive oil is really good for humans

kuhewa 4y ago
Did you start sedentary and with a bit of extra weight? It would make sense if you started strength training at the same time and benefited from 'noob gains' Also the other fellow might be referencing EVOO's low smoke point, it's true there isn't much point using it for high heat cooking.
- molszanski 4y ago
  I am 175cm. Went from 80 kg to 66 in 6 months or less. Then I plateaued and was around 67kg. Still had excessive fat tissue, but not a lot. Was sedentary, couldn't even do 1 pull around March 15. No I am ~70kg, with less fat tissue and doing 5/5/5 pull ups with 5KG added. So def. noob gains. But I also see that fat tissue is burning (slowly but surely) and muscles are growing. Lifting, no cardio or HIIT. Yeah, I meant EVOO in general. Great for salads, maybe not so much for frying :)
- mathieuh 4y ago
  My sport is cycling, when I started on keto my power metrics jumped up, from an FTP of about 220 W in August 2021 to currently 276 W, where it's plateaued for the last few months. My legs are also visibly much bigger and harder. I get the feeling that it is possible to gain muscle on keto, it's just being low-carb doesn't lend itself to high-intensity efforts, so at some point you just can't put out enough effort to damage your muscles any further. I've recently starting eating carbs on days where I'm doing 80+ km and the difference is astonishing, I've set PRs up hills at the end of 100 km rides and I'm approaching being able to do 100 km solo at 32 km/h, where before on strict keto I'd start getting very lethargic after just 50 km.
  - kuhewa 4y ago
    I imagine there's probably some direct impact to muscle anabolism as well, since the anabolic hormone insulin has a low and stable profile on keto. Really interesting though to hear how your power increased. Taking carbs on big effort days seems like the best of both worlds, fat adapted but able to take advantage of both energy systems. I think on Inigo san Milan's first appearance on Peter Attia's podcast they got into this a bit, also mentioned that high level fat adapted cyclists could do a few hundred grams of carbs in a day and still maintain ketosis
- OJFord 4y ago
  EVOO? Extra virgin especially low, and also a waste of money using it for cooking. I don't use even cheap olive oil for anything hotter than say medium-high frying or grilling. Unless you're in Italy, where perhaps it's (at the low end) dominant cheap oil, otherwise (or if olivey flavour not desired) I'd suggest something cheap flavourless & high-smoke point, exactly what varies by region - sunflower, rapeseed, mustard, whatever.
MrBuddyCasino 4y ago
Olive oil, coconut oil, lard and butter are all recommended for cooking, but not all of them are suitable for high heat.
- Tabular-Iceberg 4y ago
  Which ones? The milk solids in the butter will obviously burn, but the others seem about as suitable as anything can get.
  - MrBuddyCasino 4y ago
    Yes, ghee would be better than butter, and I wouldn't use olive oil for high-temperature frying. Coconut oil and beef tallow very suitable.
    - Tabular-Iceberg 4y ago
      What’s wrong with olive?
      - MrBuddyCasino 4y ago
        Oils go rancid by premature oxidation of the fat. Saturated fat is least susceptible to this, polyunsaturated oil the most. Rancid fat is quite toxic and will suppress the immune system, slow metabolism and cause other issues. Butter and coconut oil are nearly 100% saturated fats, with 2-3% PUFA. Olive oil is a bit higher in PUFA, 8-11%, so it decomposes more easily when heated up. Consider that olive oil is one of the most counterfeited products in the world. It is very common for producers (Greece, Italy, Macedonia etc) to add low-quality seed oils, and this is hard to detect. Research the price of olives, the amount of olives needed for one liter of olive oil, and the price olive oil sells for in supermarkets - it doesn't add up.

kuhewa 4y ago

Did you start sedentary and with a bit of extra weight? It would make sense if you started strength training at the same time and benefited from 'noob gains' Also the other fellow might be referencing EVOO's low smoke point, it's true there isn't much point using it for high heat cooking.

molszanski 4y ago
I am 175cm. Went from 80 kg to 66 in 6 months or less. Then I plateaued and was around 67kg. Still had excessive fat tissue, but not a lot. Was sedentary, couldn't even do 1 pull around March 15. No I am ~70kg, with less fat tissue and doing 5/5/5 pull ups with 5KG added. So def. noob gains. But I also see that fat tissue is burning (slowly but surely) and muscles are growing. Lifting, no cardio or HIIT. Yeah, I meant EVOO in general. Great for salads, maybe not so much for frying :)
mathieuh 4y ago
My sport is cycling, when I started on keto my power metrics jumped up, from an FTP of about 220 W in August 2021 to currently 276 W, where it's plateaued for the last few months. My legs are also visibly much bigger and harder. I get the feeling that it is possible to gain muscle on keto, it's just being low-carb doesn't lend itself to high-intensity efforts, so at some point you just can't put out enough effort to damage your muscles any further. I've recently starting eating carbs on days where I'm doing 80+ km and the difference is astonishing, I've set PRs up hills at the end of 100 km rides and I'm approaching being able to do 100 km solo at 32 km/h, where before on strict keto I'd start getting very lethargic after just 50 km.
- kuhewa 4y ago
  I imagine there's probably some direct impact to muscle anabolism as well, since the anabolic hormone insulin has a low and stable profile on keto. Really interesting though to hear how your power increased. Taking carbs on big effort days seems like the best of both worlds, fat adapted but able to take advantage of both energy systems. I think on Inigo san Milan's first appearance on Peter Attia's podcast they got into this a bit, also mentioned that high level fat adapted cyclists could do a few hundred grams of carbs in a day and still maintain ketosis
OJFord 4y ago
EVOO? Extra virgin especially low, and also a waste of money using it for cooking. I don't use even cheap olive oil for anything hotter than say medium-high frying or grilling. Unless you're in Italy, where perhaps it's (at the low end) dominant cheap oil, otherwise (or if olivey flavour not desired) I'd suggest something cheap flavourless & high-smoke point, exactly what varies by region - sunflower, rapeseed, mustard, whatever.

MrBuddyCasino 4y ago

Olive oil, coconut oil, lard and butter are all recommended for cooking, but not all of them are suitable for high heat.

Tabular-Iceberg 4y ago
Which ones? The milk solids in the butter will obviously burn, but the others seem about as suitable as anything can get.
- MrBuddyCasino 4y ago
  Yes, ghee would be better than butter, and I wouldn't use olive oil for high-temperature frying. Coconut oil and beef tallow very suitable.
  - Tabular-Iceberg 4y ago
    What’s wrong with olive?
    - MrBuddyCasino 4y ago
      Oils go rancid by premature oxidation of the fat. Saturated fat is least susceptible to this, polyunsaturated oil the most. Rancid fat is quite toxic and will suppress the immune system, slow metabolism and cause other issues. Butter and coconut oil are nearly 100% saturated fats, with 2-3% PUFA. Olive oil is a bit higher in PUFA, 8-11%, so it decomposes more easily when heated up. Consider that olive oil is one of the most counterfeited products in the world. It is very common for producers (Greece, Italy, Macedonia etc) to add low-quality seed oils, and this is hard to detect. Research the price of olives, the amount of olives needed for one liter of olive oil, and the price olive oil sells for in supermarkets - it doesn't add up.