4 ms·

Concise and well said. Only one thing to add, war time booms are a bit of a myth. For example, where was the post Iraq War boom? It is a real thing. You have t

Concise and well said. Only one thing to add, war time booms are a bit of a myth. For example, where was the post Iraq War boom? It is a real thing. You have to blow up your industrial competitors to achieve a worthwhile and meaningful postwar boom. The difference today is that even if we blew up China, companies still wouldn’t invest here. They just go to India or Vietnam. We do need more unions in this country. Because our historically low union membership was not enough to stop outsourcing. My hometown‘s manufacturing was strong and has been gutted. It was an anti-union town. And no, the companies did not reward that. It just made it easier for them to go to Malaysia.

alangibson 4y ago
> where was the post Iraq War boom? Indeed. I wartime booms are a thing of the past. I guess the reason is that mobilizations are smaller as a function of the total economy and/or the economy is a permanent wartime economy given that the USA is almost always at war somewhere. > We do need more unions in this country Agreed, but I don't think that would allow us to repeat the gains of the last century. Capital make big concessions to the working class in Europe and the US in the 20th century because there was a very real threat of a revolution lead by the organized Left.
- BuckRogers 4y ago
  but I don't think that would allow us to repeat the gains of the last century. Agreed. Partially due to increased globalization. We've been globalized since colonial times, but instant communication was the real game-changer. There's no turning back now. No matter how many populist movements rise up around the world as a last gasp against it. It's hard work to achieve collective bargaining, easy to overthrow a government in a coup. People are clearly choosing the latter in the USA, but they won't like the loss of democratic freedom in the end. What unions in the US can achieve is dignity for workers. They won't get the share of wealth they once had, but they can be treated with more respect, more time off to enjoy themselves and their family and friends. Essentially we could achieve a western European quality of life, at best. There's nothing wrong with that. The way people live over there with less income, but overall better quality of life is the best-case scenario for the US going forward. While they have some serious security risks, I'm envious that they have already sorted these things out while the US still has struggle ahead economic side. And we may fail, and simply become another Brazil, rather than like Germany. I think Rio de Janeiro style slums are more likely in our future, rather than Berlin. Our people and leaders just don't have the culture and stick-to-it to achieve that reality, in my opinion. The working class here is too easily divided by the asset holding class. Just tell them unions are bad, or focus on minority issues, whether it be LGBTQ or racial minority strife and you have a distraction for 1 to 3 generations' lifespans. Right now, given the lack of focus on the working class and corporate focus on general social justice issues, we're kissing away the next 100 years that need to be put towards all working class people. Money and job security are what people need, no matter who you are. I don't see a true working class revolution begin in the US until 2060 or so. It may take all the way out to 2100. There's just too many people that would otherwise be working on this, that are extremely focused on gender and racial studies. No money is going to come out of that for anyone. Corporations and the capitalist class know it. You'll know you have achieved enlightened corporations when they are publicly promoting collective bargaining. They're flying rainbows instead, keeping the money, and everyone on both sides is feeling good. While that's a pessimistic take, the good news is that the propaganda that unions drove out US enterprise is demonstrably false. That has been revealed to have been a total scam and I think everyone sees it at this point. You lose nothing at all when you have collective bargaining rights, it's all upside. As long as the business is solvent, the boss may be angry at merely one Lamborghini rather than five though. Or just wealth for him to retire at 45, rather than generational wealth for the next 3 generations being available. Worker-owned enterprise also needs to happen. There's just no rational reason why for proven business models, like 7-Eleven out of Japan, needs to run half of our convenience stores when those could be owned and operated by the employees. With better pay and customer service as a result. I'm fine with venture capital and risk-reward for unproven business models, but many of these large corporations are parasites like 7-Eleven. We have to kick these corporations out and retake our local economy. No reason to allow them to have end-to-end control all the way, and it will encourage some local suppliers to pop up as fellow cooperatives see eye to eye and work together.

alangibson 4y ago

> where was the post Iraq War boom? Indeed. I wartime booms are a thing of the past. I guess the reason is that mobilizations are smaller as a function of the total economy and/or the economy is a permanent wartime economy given that the USA is almost always at war somewhere. > We do need more unions in this country Agreed, but I don't think that would allow us to repeat the gains of the last century. Capital make big concessions to the working class in Europe and the US in the 20th century because there was a very real threat of a revolution lead by the organized Left.

BuckRogers 4y ago
but I don't think that would allow us to repeat the gains of the last century. Agreed. Partially due to increased globalization. We've been globalized since colonial times, but instant communication was the real game-changer. There's no turning back now. No matter how many populist movements rise up around the world as a last gasp against it. It's hard work to achieve collective bargaining, easy to overthrow a government in a coup. People are clearly choosing the latter in the USA, but they won't like the loss of democratic freedom in the end. What unions in the US can achieve is dignity for workers. They won't get the share of wealth they once had, but they can be treated with more respect, more time off to enjoy themselves and their family and friends. Essentially we could achieve a western European quality of life, at best. There's nothing wrong with that. The way people live over there with less income, but overall better quality of life is the best-case scenario for the US going forward. While they have some serious security risks, I'm envious that they have already sorted these things out while the US still has struggle ahead economic side. And we may fail, and simply become another Brazil, rather than like Germany. I think Rio de Janeiro style slums are more likely in our future, rather than Berlin. Our people and leaders just don't have the culture and stick-to-it to achieve that reality, in my opinion. The working class here is too easily divided by the asset holding class. Just tell them unions are bad, or focus on minority issues, whether it be LGBTQ or racial minority strife and you have a distraction for 1 to 3 generations' lifespans. Right now, given the lack of focus on the working class and corporate focus on general social justice issues, we're kissing away the next 100 years that need to be put towards all working class people. Money and job security are what people need, no matter who you are. I don't see a true working class revolution begin in the US until 2060 or so. It may take all the way out to 2100. There's just too many people that would otherwise be working on this, that are extremely focused on gender and racial studies. No money is going to come out of that for anyone. Corporations and the capitalist class know it. You'll know you have achieved enlightened corporations when they are publicly promoting collective bargaining. They're flying rainbows instead, keeping the money, and everyone on both sides is feeling good. While that's a pessimistic take, the good news is that the propaganda that unions drove out US enterprise is demonstrably false. That has been revealed to have been a total scam and I think everyone sees it at this point. You lose nothing at all when you have collective bargaining rights, it's all upside. As long as the business is solvent, the boss may be angry at merely one Lamborghini rather than five though. Or just wealth for him to retire at 45, rather than generational wealth for the next 3 generations being available. Worker-owned enterprise also needs to happen. There's just no rational reason why for proven business models, like 7-Eleven out of Japan, needs to run half of our convenience stores when those could be owned and operated by the employees. With better pay and customer service as a result. I'm fine with venture capital and risk-reward for unproven business models, but many of these large corporations are parasites like 7-Eleven. We have to kick these corporations out and retake our local economy. No reason to allow them to have end-to-end control all the way, and it will encourage some local suppliers to pop up as fellow cooperatives see eye to eye and work together.