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> JavaScript is unlike other programming languages in that it is the universal scripting language. Its universality combined with security from the browser and

by neya 4y ago

> JavaScript is unlike other programming languages in that it is the universal scripting language. Its universality combined with security from the browser and its raw performance lends itself to a solution for these problems, at least for a certain common class of applications. You want to sell Javascript based solutions, go for it. But don’t push this nonsense like “No language like Javascript”. The only reason Javascript has a wider adoption than others is because it’s forced upon us. Browsers understand just Javascript to display web pages, period. Doesn’t make it the best because of that reason. I say this as an experienced IT consultant managing a wide array of projects over my career across industries. You know what usually bites me when I touch code that has not been touched for 6 months (usually a late contract renewal)? It’s not my Elixir or Ruby code that’s running on autopilot. It’s the stupid Javascript with its Node based dependencies all failing randomly in each direction just because some developer used a library for something trivial they could have written themselves or super likely because Babel or Webpack decided to change their config files so my entire JS pipeline breaks. JS is a language full of patchwork and its entire ecosystem, more so - it certainly has gotten better over the years. If it works for you, then great. But it’s a far cry from a “one solution for everything that’s better than everything else”. Personally, I use Coffeescript. It has been a breeze from all aspects.

MarquesMa 4y ago
> You want to sell Javascript based solutions, go for it. But don’t push this nonsense like “No language like Javascript”. The only reason Javascript has a wider adoption than others is that it’s forced upon us. It is forced upon us doesn't mean it can't be universal. On the contrary, it usually is. It's like how USD is kinda forced around the world but it's universal nonetheless.
alephnan 4y ago
> Doesn’t make it the best because of that reason. This is a strawman. Where in the original post did they say JavaScript was the best. They said JavaScript is the "universal" scripting language in the sense that is ubiquitous. That is fact. You literally confirmed it here: > Javascript has a wider adoption than others is because it’s forced upon us > You know what usually bites me when I touch code that has not been touched for 6 months (usually a late contract renewal)?... It’s the stupid Javascript with its Node based dependencies all failing randomly in each direction just because some developer used a library for something trivial they could have written themselves or super likely because Babel or Webpack decided to change their config files so my entire JS pipeline breaks. Okay....? Then write VanillaJS instead of depending on Node dependencies. It's not JavaScript's fault that you're a contractor dealing with other developers' app-level tech debt. > Personally, I use Coffeescript. It has been a breeze from all aspects. That's a cool story, but Deno uses TypeScript so the whole JavaScript rant crumbles here. > Browsers understand just Javascript to display web pages, period. Bits like this make me feel like you're just throwing a bunch of domain-related words together and hopes something sticks. Browsers understand more than JavaScript, and JavaScript isn't the control layer for logic, which can including displaying page, but ultimately its HTML that is for displaying the web page. > I say this as an experienced IT consultant managing a wide array of projects over my career across industries. I say this as an experience software engineer deploying a wide array of web apps getting hundreds of millions of views a month over my career across FANG companies.
- neya 4y ago
  > I say this as an experience software engineer deploying a wide array of web apps getting hundreds of millions of views a month over my career across FANG companies. > Okay....? Then write VanillaJS instead of depending on Node dependencies. It's not JavaScript's fault that you're a contractor dealing with other developers' app-level tech debt. That’s a strawman. I challenge you to write a full on production level frontend application using pure Vanilla JS. You can’t. Not in 2022…unless it’s a simple DOM manipulation job. > That's a cool story, but Deno uses TypeScript so the whole JavaScript rant crumbles here “Bits like this make me feel like you're just throwing a bunch of domain-related words together and hopes something sticks.” See how easy it is to resort to ad-hominem? So what you’ve worked across FANG companies? It’s irrelevant to the discussion. No need to show off - saying you’re an experienced software engineer is good enough. The rest of it doesn’t make your argument any more valid. Javascript apologists like you who don’t see the problem with the ecosystem are the reason why the whole ecosystem is so fucked up with half baked systems that are barely reliable.
- skinnymuch 4y ago
  > deploying a wide array of web apps getting hundreds of millions of views a month over my career across FANG companies. This bit is unnecessary. We don’t need a bunch of e-penis measuring. I personally see less credibility when social proof is used this much.
quickthrower2 4y ago
Did you mean to say Coffeescript? Thats just a thin transpiler to JS.

by neya 4y ago

MarquesMa 4y ago

> You want to sell Javascript based solutions, go for it. But don’t push this nonsense like “No language like Javascript”. The only reason Javascript has a wider adoption than others is that it’s forced upon us. It is forced upon us doesn't mean it can't be universal. On the contrary, it usually is. It's like how USD is kinda forced around the world but it's universal nonetheless.

alephnan 4y ago

> Doesn’t make it the best because of that reason. This is a strawman. Where in the original post did they say JavaScript was the best. They said JavaScript is the "universal" scripting language in the sense that is ubiquitous. That is fact. You literally confirmed it here: > Javascript has a wider adoption than others is because it’s forced upon us > You know what usually bites me when I touch code that has not been touched for 6 months (usually a late contract renewal)?... It’s the stupid Javascript with its Node based dependencies all failing randomly in each direction just because some developer used a library for something trivial they could have written themselves or super likely because Babel or Webpack decided to change their config files so my entire JS pipeline breaks. Okay....? Then write VanillaJS instead of depending on Node dependencies. It's not JavaScript's fault that you're a contractor dealing with other developers' app-level tech debt. > Personally, I use Coffeescript. It has been a breeze from all aspects. That's a cool story, but Deno uses TypeScript so the whole JavaScript rant crumbles here. > Browsers understand just Javascript to display web pages, period. Bits like this make me feel like you're just throwing a bunch of domain-related words together and hopes something sticks. Browsers understand more than JavaScript, and JavaScript isn't the control layer for logic, which can including displaying page, but ultimately its HTML that is for displaying the web page. > I say this as an experienced IT consultant managing a wide array of projects over my career across industries. I say this as an experience software engineer deploying a wide array of web apps getting hundreds of millions of views a month over my career across FANG companies.

neya 4y ago
> I say this as an experience software engineer deploying a wide array of web apps getting hundreds of millions of views a month over my career across FANG companies. > Okay....? Then write VanillaJS instead of depending on Node dependencies. It's not JavaScript's fault that you're a contractor dealing with other developers' app-level tech debt. That’s a strawman. I challenge you to write a full on production level frontend application using pure Vanilla JS. You can’t. Not in 2022…unless it’s a simple DOM manipulation job. > That's a cool story, but Deno uses TypeScript so the whole JavaScript rant crumbles here “Bits like this make me feel like you're just throwing a bunch of domain-related words together and hopes something sticks.” See how easy it is to resort to ad-hominem? So what you’ve worked across FANG companies? It’s irrelevant to the discussion. No need to show off - saying you’re an experienced software engineer is good enough. The rest of it doesn’t make your argument any more valid. Javascript apologists like you who don’t see the problem with the ecosystem are the reason why the whole ecosystem is so fucked up with half baked systems that are barely reliable.
skinnymuch 4y ago
> deploying a wide array of web apps getting hundreds of millions of views a month over my career across FANG companies. This bit is unnecessary. We don’t need a bunch of e-penis measuring. I personally see less credibility when social proof is used this much.

quickthrower2 4y ago

Did you mean to say Coffeescript? Thats just a thin transpiler to JS.