7 ms·

We need to find a way to better integrate UI/UX designers into open source.

r1ch 4y ago
We have actually just launched a user survey[1] today hoping to get some feedback about how people use OBS, with the goal of improving UX. No telemetry makes it difficult to get an idea of which features users actually use or find important. [1] https://obsproject.com/survey https://obsproject.com/survey
- smcnally 4y ago
  > No telemetry makes it difficult to get an idea of which features users actually use or find important. Beyond the survey, are there usage logs we can share or limited telemetry we can opt into?
  - fenrirthviti 4y ago
    Nothing else at the moment, even as opt-in. We're considering this in the future, but want to make sure we do it right.
    - Akronymus 4y ago
      Personally, if there is telemetry added, I'd prefer it to be plugin.
    - tomudding 4y ago
      > but want to make sure we do it right. Make sure you do it differently than how Muse Group did it with Audacity (specifically the announcement and explanation of why and what parts) [0]. Which I'd argue is not particularly difficult to do. [0]: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/07/no-open-source-audacity-audio-editor-is-not-spyware/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/07/no-open-source-audac...
- corobo 4y ago
  I'd love it if you guys pinched inspiration from the middle alignment lines from whatever streamlabs calls itself these days (lines that extend to the edge of the scene when moving elements so you can more easily eyeball where things should go, snapping to other element edges/middles is a bonus). Literally the only thing I missed switching out slobs for OBS. Love OBS, everyone involved in it should legitimately feel proud of their work. Great software. E: Survey done :)
fernandotakai 4y ago
first time i showed my wife calibre (she had to convert some amazon ebook format to epub), she was scared. so many buttons, so many labels, so many options. nothing makes sense unless you understand the developer that did it.
- bityard 4y ago
  I'm normally one who vastly prefers function over form and UIs that get out of the way of someone who knows what they're doing instead of catering _strictly_ to the use cases of the lowest common denominator. But even I think the Calibre UI is pretty awful.
  - DrewADesign 4y ago
    This is why we need more design expertise in FOSS. Your form/function dichotomy is incorrect. You have software domain knowledge and experience working with spaghetti interfaces assembled by developers rather than designed by experts. You find them more functional because it fits your existing mental model of an interface. However, these interfaces are vastly less functional to everyone else. An interface that only facilitates beginner workflows is poorly designed. I rarely see these in the wild, but the culprits are usually non-designers pantomiming their understanding of ‘designed’. I do, however, regularly see developers misinterpret interfaces designed to facilitate advanced functionality for non-developers. Focused views with controls and readouts obscured as appropriate, but functionality exposed through key shortcuts or other means are what most people expect, and it’s a whole lot easier for a developer to learn those usage models than for non-developer users to learn how to use a hundred buttons and readouts acting as a thin wrapper around an API.
    - squarefoot 4y ago
      > This is why we need more design expertise in FOSS. The secret probably is having well defined roles: whoever writes the code shouldn't be involved in interface design and vice versa, unless they prove themselves good at it, as the two tasks require very different sets of skills. This is easily accomplished in commercial software writing where roles are defined and salaries paid, but in the FOSS world where everyone and their cat want to be the famous developer, the UI designer role is rarely recognized for its importance.
singhrac 4y ago
I would love for this to happen. I’m no designer, but I enjoy thinking about design and tinkering in Figma. The reasons I don’t try to help on this front are because (a) I’m not a professional, (b) I doubt anyone appreciates a drive-by “design upgrade” without data pointing to why it would be better, and (c) I rarely have deep enough context into the application to make more than superficial helpful changes. By the way, as a community we should look at the changes Blender landed in 2.8, which were (I think) considered a major UI/UX redesign that increased accessibility to the broader public.
verve_rat 4y ago
Please don't.
j1elo 4y ago
There might be an issue with the view that non-programmers have of contributing to open-source. My sample size of 1 is a friend who is a professional UX designer. Once, I tried convincing them to help with some OS project, but the response was "that sounds like work, and I don't work for free". Which has a point, I guess. Open Source contributors have normalized pouring countless hours for free into their projects (when not paid by a commercial entity). But outside of this bubble, I guess people don't see it with the same eyes. Even though in the end, it benefits everyone. It just requires (semi?)professional knowledge to write good code, like it takes professional knowledge to write good UX, so "why would anyone do that unpaid". Maybe makes sense in the spirit of an artist who gives their art for free, but not in the mindset of a professional who charges good $$$ for an hour of work. EDIT: Typos and unfinished phrases.
- ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
  It's difficult to get pros to donate work. Even when they do, the work they do can be ... less than perfect ... In the project that I developed, and turned over to a new team, we finally (after about ten years) got someone who is a professional UX manager/developer to step up, and he's been doing an awesome job. In my case, my personal motivations run deep. I do a "better than pro" job on all my open source. I'm a passably decent designer and UX guy, so that helps.

r1ch 4y ago

We have actually just launched a user survey[1] today hoping to get some feedback about how people use OBS, with the goal of improving UX. No telemetry makes it difficult to get an idea of which features users actually use or find important. [1] https://obsproject.com/survey https://obsproject.com/survey

smcnally 4y ago
> No telemetry makes it difficult to get an idea of which features users actually use or find important. Beyond the survey, are there usage logs we can share or limited telemetry we can opt into?
- fenrirthviti 4y ago
  Nothing else at the moment, even as opt-in. We're considering this in the future, but want to make sure we do it right.
  - Akronymus 4y ago
    Personally, if there is telemetry added, I'd prefer it to be plugin.
  - tomudding 4y ago
    > but want to make sure we do it right. Make sure you do it differently than how Muse Group did it with Audacity (specifically the announcement and explanation of why and what parts) [0]. Which I'd argue is not particularly difficult to do. [0]: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/07/no-open-source-audacity-audio-editor-is-not-spyware/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/07/no-open-source-audac...
corobo 4y ago
I'd love it if you guys pinched inspiration from the middle alignment lines from whatever streamlabs calls itself these days (lines that extend to the edge of the scene when moving elements so you can more easily eyeball where things should go, snapping to other element edges/middles is a bonus). Literally the only thing I missed switching out slobs for OBS. Love OBS, everyone involved in it should legitimately feel proud of their work. Great software. E: Survey done :)

fernandotakai 4y ago

first time i showed my wife calibre (she had to convert some amazon ebook format to epub), she was scared. so many buttons, so many labels, so many options. nothing makes sense unless you understand the developer that did it.

bityard 4y ago
I'm normally one who vastly prefers function over form and UIs that get out of the way of someone who knows what they're doing instead of catering _strictly_ to the use cases of the lowest common denominator. But even I think the Calibre UI is pretty awful.
- DrewADesign 4y ago
  This is why we need more design expertise in FOSS. Your form/function dichotomy is incorrect. You have software domain knowledge and experience working with spaghetti interfaces assembled by developers rather than designed by experts. You find them more functional because it fits your existing mental model of an interface. However, these interfaces are vastly less functional to everyone else. An interface that only facilitates beginner workflows is poorly designed. I rarely see these in the wild, but the culprits are usually non-designers pantomiming their understanding of ‘designed’. I do, however, regularly see developers misinterpret interfaces designed to facilitate advanced functionality for non-developers. Focused views with controls and readouts obscured as appropriate, but functionality exposed through key shortcuts or other means are what most people expect, and it’s a whole lot easier for a developer to learn those usage models than for non-developer users to learn how to use a hundred buttons and readouts acting as a thin wrapper around an API.
  - squarefoot 4y ago
    > This is why we need more design expertise in FOSS. The secret probably is having well defined roles: whoever writes the code shouldn't be involved in interface design and vice versa, unless they prove themselves good at it, as the two tasks require very different sets of skills. This is easily accomplished in commercial software writing where roles are defined and salaries paid, but in the FOSS world where everyone and their cat want to be the famous developer, the UI designer role is rarely recognized for its importance.

singhrac 4y ago

I would love for this to happen. I’m no designer, but I enjoy thinking about design and tinkering in Figma. The reasons I don’t try to help on this front are because (a) I’m not a professional, (b) I doubt anyone appreciates a drive-by “design upgrade” without data pointing to why it would be better, and (c) I rarely have deep enough context into the application to make more than superficial helpful changes. By the way, as a community we should look at the changes Blender landed in 2.8, which were (I think) considered a major UI/UX redesign that increased accessibility to the broader public.

verve_rat 4y ago

Please don't.

j1elo 4y ago

There might be an issue with the view that non-programmers have of contributing to open-source. My sample size of 1 is a friend who is a professional UX designer. Once, I tried convincing them to help with some OS project, but the response was "that sounds like work, and I don't work for free". Which has a point, I guess. Open Source contributors have normalized pouring countless hours for free into their projects (when not paid by a commercial entity). But outside of this bubble, I guess people don't see it with the same eyes. Even though in the end, it benefits everyone. It just requires (semi?)professional knowledge to write good code, like it takes professional knowledge to write good UX, so "why would anyone do that unpaid". Maybe makes sense in the spirit of an artist who gives their art for free, but not in the mindset of a professional who charges good $$$ for an hour of work. EDIT: Typos and unfinished phrases.

ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
It's difficult to get pros to donate work. Even when they do, the work they do can be ... less than perfect ... In the project that I developed, and turned over to a new team, we finally (after about ten years) got someone who is a professional UX manager/developer to step up, and he's been doing an awesome job. In my case, my personal motivations run deep. I do a "better than pro" job on all my open source. I'm a passably decent designer and UX guy, so that helps.