5 ms·

What percentage of x-plane users do you think ACTUALLY use it for learning to fly an airplane (in the sense that they do or will go fly that actual plane IRL)?

What percentage of x-plane users do you think ACTUALLY use it for learning to fly an airplane (in the sense that they do or will go fly that actual plane IRL)? I'd bet a lot of money that it's less than 5%. They are optimizing for an aspirational but tiny use case.

throwaway675309 4y ago
I feel like the use case of people who want extremely accurate flight modeling and physics + want to control their plane with a QWERTY keyboard is 0%.
- waynecochran 4y ago
  It would be funny to peak into a cockpit and see a pilot w a QWERTY keyboard on his lap.
  - selectodude 4y ago
    Well, pop into the cockpit of the A380 or the A350 and you'll see that exact situation. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DUdKMKeXUAAjrFO?format=jpg&name=large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DUdKMKeXUAAjrFO?format=jpg&name=...
    - waynecochran 4y ago
      Sure enough ... there it is ...
- TimTheTinker 4y ago
  I'm in that "0%", for what it's worth. I want the leisure time my kids and I spend on X-Plane to count towards my/their overall ability to fly a small plane someday (a lifelong dream), but (a) I don't have room for flight gear -- there's barely space for my tiny home office desk, and (b) I can't even justify spending $100 right now for a flight yoke amid other financial obligations (it was a splurge to spend $60 for X-Plane 11). Honestly, I probably would have bought Microsoft's 2020 FS instead if it ran on macOS.
  - Alupis 4y ago
    You don't need to invest in all that kit if you don't want too - I have most of the pretty typical "kit" for a flight simmer, yet I'm often too lazy to haul it all out and set it up (I don't leave it out in between "sessions" since I work from that computer too). So, very often I wind up flying with just my cheap Logitech joystick, but even an XBox controller would be a huge step up from mouse/keyboard only. Having programmable buttons available at your fingertips without having to take your eyes off screen and look for a button really adds to the immersion in my opinion.
  - quest88 4y ago
    My opinion is that people who start in simulator have a hard time adjusting to flying visually (the fundamentals). The sim forces you to look at your instruments which is a bad habit to break. But something constructive: Consider enrolling them in the Young Eagles (https://www.eaa.org/eaa/youth/free-ye-flights https://www.eaa.org/eaa/youth/free-ye-flights) if you haven't already.
    - TimTheTinker 4y ago
      Interesting, I'm not sure I agree. I can take off and land a small plane in a simulator without looking at the instruments at all (except maybe a couple glances at the air speed indicator as I set up for landing), and I've never flown in a real small plane. I always thought visual flying was a crutch and instrument flying is the "real thing" that I know I can't do.
      - bityard 4y ago
        No, both types of flying are very important to "real" pilots. The kind of flying you're doing (basically) is called VFR, for visual flight rules. You keep an eye on your instruments of course but a lot of the flying is getting done just by looking out the window. While a trained pilot certainty CAN fly on instruments alone (which is a separate certification on top of your regular license), no sane pilot would choose to ignore what is happening outside if visibility is decent. GOOD pilots like to have all the information they can, at all times.
- numpad0 4y ago
  When I play Assetto Corsa I don’t necessarily seeking to simulate operating dipsticks and clearing TPMS warnings. But I don’t want to be able to go through corners without braking either.
TylerE 4y ago
Hardly aspirational. They sell a (much more expensive) version that is FAA-certified for training.
- masklinn 4y ago
  > They sell a (much more expensive) version that is FAA-certified for training. It's not even that much more expensive, the Pro edition is 750. Though unless you also have real sim hardware it's a completely useless expense as aside from FAA cert validators the features are mostly for multi-projector systems (image warping, edge blending).
ziddoap 4y ago
>What percentage of x-plane users do you think ACTUALLY use it for learning to fly an airplane What does it matter? I play city simulation games, and want them to be realistic, because I find the realism fun. Not because I plan on building my own city. Wanting a realistic flight simulator that gives the real sensation of flying does not mean you must then become a pilot.
- 0xffff2 4y ago
  And unlike any city sim game I'm aware of, X-Plane is actually used as a research tool in real aerospace engineering applications.
masklinn 4y ago
You know that if you want a more arcade oriented flight sim there's flight simulator right? That's not Laminar's goal, and that's not the market they're in. You can see that in the post, it's by the founder of Laminar. It's pages upon pages of gushing over flight modelling.
throckmortra 4y ago
Anecdotally: a lot! I find it very useful for practicing IFR procedures and approaches. You can connect it to an external comm service like Vatsim and a real human will even give you vectors and clearances! (They, too, are using it for realistic practice for a job with air traffic control)
colechristensen 4y ago
xplane is built for a certain use case, and that's real simulation, their real paying customers are using it to actually learn how to fly. people using it for other purposes may be more in number, but focusing the product on their use case would dilute the intended product, and they don't actually pay the pro pricing it's not optimizing for an aspirational use case, the product is for this very niche use case. letting other people use it for fun is just a bonus. If you want a flight sim that maximizes fun, there are other options.
- ngcc_hk 4y ago
  That is what I hope for. We need more not less options. Hope that niche survive. But would it migrate out so not facing normal consumers I wonder one day.
yellowapple 4y ago
> What percentage of x-plane users do you think ACTUALLY use it for learning to fly an airplane (in the sense that they do or will go fly that actual plane IRL)? Based on my anecdotal observations of people I know IRL who use X-Plane? 100%.

throwaway675309 4y ago

I feel like the use case of people who want extremely accurate flight modeling and physics + want to control their plane with a QWERTY keyboard is 0%.

waynecochran 4y ago
It would be funny to peak into a cockpit and see a pilot w a QWERTY keyboard on his lap.
- selectodude 4y ago
  Well, pop into the cockpit of the A380 or the A350 and you'll see that exact situation. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DUdKMKeXUAAjrFO?format=jpg&name=large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DUdKMKeXUAAjrFO?format=jpg&name=...
  - waynecochran 4y ago
    Sure enough ... there it is ...
TimTheTinker 4y ago
I'm in that "0%", for what it's worth. I want the leisure time my kids and I spend on X-Plane to count towards my/their overall ability to fly a small plane someday (a lifelong dream), but (a) I don't have room for flight gear -- there's barely space for my tiny home office desk, and (b) I can't even justify spending $100 right now for a flight yoke amid other financial obligations (it was a splurge to spend $60 for X-Plane 11). Honestly, I probably would have bought Microsoft's 2020 FS instead if it ran on macOS.
- Alupis 4y ago
  You don't need to invest in all that kit if you don't want too - I have most of the pretty typical "kit" for a flight simmer, yet I'm often too lazy to haul it all out and set it up (I don't leave it out in between "sessions" since I work from that computer too). So, very often I wind up flying with just my cheap Logitech joystick, but even an XBox controller would be a huge step up from mouse/keyboard only. Having programmable buttons available at your fingertips without having to take your eyes off screen and look for a button really adds to the immersion in my opinion.
- quest88 4y ago
  My opinion is that people who start in simulator have a hard time adjusting to flying visually (the fundamentals). The sim forces you to look at your instruments which is a bad habit to break. But something constructive: Consider enrolling them in the Young Eagles (https://www.eaa.org/eaa/youth/free-ye-flights https://www.eaa.org/eaa/youth/free-ye-flights) if you haven't already.
  - TimTheTinker 4y ago
    Interesting, I'm not sure I agree. I can take off and land a small plane in a simulator without looking at the instruments at all (except maybe a couple glances at the air speed indicator as I set up for landing), and I've never flown in a real small plane. I always thought visual flying was a crutch and instrument flying is the "real thing" that I know I can't do.
    - bityard 4y ago
      No, both types of flying are very important to "real" pilots. The kind of flying you're doing (basically) is called VFR, for visual flight rules. You keep an eye on your instruments of course but a lot of the flying is getting done just by looking out the window. While a trained pilot certainty CAN fly on instruments alone (which is a separate certification on top of your regular license), no sane pilot would choose to ignore what is happening outside if visibility is decent. GOOD pilots like to have all the information they can, at all times.
numpad0 4y ago
When I play Assetto Corsa I don’t necessarily seeking to simulate operating dipsticks and clearing TPMS warnings. But I don’t want to be able to go through corners without braking either.

TylerE 4y ago

Hardly aspirational. They sell a (much more expensive) version that is FAA-certified for training.

masklinn 4y ago
> They sell a (much more expensive) version that is FAA-certified for training. It's not even that much more expensive, the Pro edition is 750. Though unless you also have real sim hardware it's a completely useless expense as aside from FAA cert validators the features are mostly for multi-projector systems (image warping, edge blending).

ziddoap 4y ago

>What percentage of x-plane users do you think ACTUALLY use it for learning to fly an airplane What does it matter? I play city simulation games, and want them to be realistic, because I find the realism fun. Not because I plan on building my own city. Wanting a realistic flight simulator that gives the real sensation of flying does not mean you must then become a pilot.

0xffff2 4y ago
And unlike any city sim game I'm aware of, X-Plane is actually used as a research tool in real aerospace engineering applications.

masklinn 4y ago

You know that if you want a more arcade oriented flight sim there's flight simulator right? That's not Laminar's goal, and that's not the market they're in. You can see that in the post, it's by the founder of Laminar. It's pages upon pages of gushing over flight modelling.

throckmortra 4y ago

Anecdotally: a lot! I find it very useful for practicing IFR procedures and approaches. You can connect it to an external comm service like Vatsim and a real human will even give you vectors and clearances! (They, too, are using it for realistic practice for a job with air traffic control)

colechristensen 4y ago

xplane is built for a certain use case, and that's real simulation, their real paying customers are using it to actually learn how to fly. people using it for other purposes may be more in number, but focusing the product on their use case would dilute the intended product, and they don't actually pay the pro pricing it's not optimizing for an aspirational use case, the product is for this very niche use case. letting other people use it for fun is just a bonus. If you want a flight sim that maximizes fun, there are other options.

ngcc_hk 4y ago
That is what I hope for. We need more not less options. Hope that niche survive. But would it migrate out so not facing normal consumers I wonder one day.

yellowapple 4y ago

> What percentage of x-plane users do you think ACTUALLY use it for learning to fly an airplane (in the sense that they do or will go fly that actual plane IRL)? Based on my anecdotal observations of people I know IRL who use X-Plane? 100%.