5 ms·

I feel like we're reliving the golden age of flight sims again. There are a lot of good options available now including X-Plane, Microsoft Flight Simulator, DC

by edrxty 4y ago

I feel like we're reliving the golden age of flight sims again. There are a lot of good options available now including X-Plane, Microsoft Flight Simulator, DCS World, VTOL-VR, Tiny Combat Arena, etc.

mhh__ 4y ago
I would say that we are in a golden age of simracing games too, and we practically are, but one company that isn't doing so well (Motorsport games) owns a lot of them and could go under.
Koshkin 4y ago
I find DCS to be the best of the bunch, and MSFS too gimmicky to my taste. For those who want to simply have fun flying (in something of a combat setting) there is also Far Cry 5 or 6 - two beautiful games I can’t recommend enough.
- selectodude 4y ago
  The study-level aircraft have started coming to MSFS in droves. It's no longer a gimmick.
  - Alupis 4y ago
    > The study-level aircraft have started coming to MSFS in droves. It's no longer a gimmick. Yes, some extremely detailed aircraft have been released, but the underlying simulation is still lacking realism in some key areas. Many aircraft just "feel wrong" when flown. But it's a ton of fun, and the nice visuals really make it a joy to fly places. I find I spend a lot of time in MSFS these days, even though I still prefer X-Plane for the overall realism.
  - Stevvo 4y ago
    3rd party developers can only do so much. 'Study level' just isn't possible in MSFS. For example, yoke position is not linked to control surface position. Move the yoke full deflection and you only might only see the control surface move 5% if you are at a high speed. If you model an aircraft in the sim accurately without these geared control surfaces then it will pull 20G turns at 200Kts. MSFS gets the most basic parts of the flight model and controls fundamentally wrong. (source: I have made multiple payware aircraft for both X-Plane and MSFS)
    - Manuel_D 4y ago
      This is a limitation of the controller, not the simulation software. In real life, there'd be feedback on the flight stick or yoke due to all the air hitting the control surface. Most controllers lack force-feedback and so the sim treats controller deflection as "force against the stick", which yields different amounts of deflection at different speeds.
      - Alupis 4y ago
        It's been a problem with flight sims since day one. Each "controller" be it your mouse, a joystick, flight yoke, game controller, etc, all have a different amount of available deflection on the physical device, and that has to be translated into deflection in-game. Take a flight yoke for example - you might have say 120 degrees of rotation available physically on the device, but the actual aircraft has 180 degrees. This means the sim-pilot doesn't have a connection with what is happening in the real-world vs what is happening in-sim, making minute changes a lot more challenging. It's even worse for things like joysticks that have a very low available deflection already. Moving the stick a few mm's could result in an uncontrolled roll in-sim. To help mitigate this, most sims offer a scalable conversion factor for controller input, but it's never perfect. > In real life, there'd be feedback on the flight stick or yoke due to all the air hitting the control surface Also, not all aircraft are direct linkage anymore, and most (all) commercial airline aircraft (your Boeing 737, 787, 777, Airbus A320, etc) will either have simulated feedback or no feedback.
        garaetjjte 4y ago
        >your Boeing 737 Not that one :)
        Alupis 4y ago
        Good catch. I wasn't sure if the newest variants were still mechanical linkage or if they had been "updated" with fly-by-wire systems. It seems it's still predominantly mechanical, with fly-by-wire sprinkled in here and there.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_MAX#Structural_and_other_changes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_MAX#Structural_and_...
  - iamtheworstdev 4y ago
    MSFS is just eye candy. It's physics and plane models are terrible.. especially the avionics last I tried them.
- jamesy0ung 4y ago
  > I find DCS to be the best of the bunch, and MSFS too gimmicky to my taste. 100% agree, I enjoy the systems simulation in X-Plane, but I also want a DCS style native multiplayer so I can do formation
ZeroCool2u 4y ago
I grew up on flight sims thanks to my Dad. He loved WWII dogfighting and was enthralled with the IL-2 Sturmovik series, but he got me into it with Crimson Skies. Now when we have some free overlapping time and the time zones are kind to us (He's in Europe), we hop into VTOL-VR together and it's just fantastic. Can actually wave at each other from our cockpits while we're on different continents and with the new helicopter DLC we can pilot/gunner in the same craft with each other.
- edgefield 4y ago
  What’s the setup for this? Sounds really interesting.
  - ZeroCool2u 4y ago
    That's the best part, compared to people's crazy HOTAS setups, this is all relatively minimal. I just have my Valve Index connected to my desktop. My dad uses an HP Reverb G2 also connected to his desktop. His setup is technically less overhead, as the Reverb doesn't have the light houses the Index has. Everything runs through Steam and just works. It's not crazy cheap, but it's a blast and it's super easy to hop in and out of.
- miketery 4y ago
  IL-2 Sturmovik had some of the best physics for spins[1] out of any simulators at the time. Not sure how far things have come but from what I can tell sims still struggle with this. 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spin_(aerodynamics) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spin_(aerodynamics)
kirrent 4y ago
A bit niche, but I'd add in Condor and its excellent thermal, ridge, wave, general weather simulations which make virtual soaring satisfying. It's good enough to have races in and you can even connect your normal XCSoar device.
Buttons840 4y ago
Thanks for mentioning Tiny Combat Arena, that looks really cool. I was really hoping it was going to have a dynamic campaign like Falcon 4, an old MicroProse game, where players took part in a vast AI driven war campaign. The dynamic campaign was so cool, one time I was taxiing, preparing to take off for some routine mission when a bunch of Patriot SAM missiles nearby start firing off into the horizon. The game was simulating an actual, unplanned, attack 30 miles away and nearby air defense was responding. It was none of my concern though, it wasn't part of my mission, at least not until I got into the air. I really like the idea of a flight simulator that tries to enable realistic things to happen, like stalling or being able to loft missiles, etc. I don't care as much about having the airplanes handle like real airplanes. I have a keyboard, mouse, and cheap joystick, I'm not going to get a realistic flight experience out of these, period, and spending 80% of the development effort on getting the airplanes to feel like their real counterparts isn't important to me.
- jelkand 4y ago
  That campaign is alive and well in Falcon BMS, a community built game on top of the old falcon games. It’s truly impressive how much work and fidelity they’ve been able to build as a team of volunteers.

by edrxty 4y ago

mhh__ 4y ago

I would say that we are in a golden age of simracing games too, and we practically are, but one company that isn't doing so well (Motorsport games) owns a lot of them and could go under.

Koshkin 4y ago

I find DCS to be the best of the bunch, and MSFS too gimmicky to my taste. For those who want to simply have fun flying (in something of a combat setting) there is also Far Cry 5 or 6 - two beautiful games I can’t recommend enough.

selectodude 4y ago
The study-level aircraft have started coming to MSFS in droves. It's no longer a gimmick.
- Alupis 4y ago
  > The study-level aircraft have started coming to MSFS in droves. It's no longer a gimmick. Yes, some extremely detailed aircraft have been released, but the underlying simulation is still lacking realism in some key areas. Many aircraft just "feel wrong" when flown. But it's a ton of fun, and the nice visuals really make it a joy to fly places. I find I spend a lot of time in MSFS these days, even though I still prefer X-Plane for the overall realism.
- Stevvo 4y ago
  3rd party developers can only do so much. 'Study level' just isn't possible in MSFS. For example, yoke position is not linked to control surface position. Move the yoke full deflection and you only might only see the control surface move 5% if you are at a high speed. If you model an aircraft in the sim accurately without these geared control surfaces then it will pull 20G turns at 200Kts. MSFS gets the most basic parts of the flight model and controls fundamentally wrong. (source: I have made multiple payware aircraft for both X-Plane and MSFS)
  - Manuel_D 4y ago
    This is a limitation of the controller, not the simulation software. In real life, there'd be feedback on the flight stick or yoke due to all the air hitting the control surface. Most controllers lack force-feedback and so the sim treats controller deflection as "force against the stick", which yields different amounts of deflection at different speeds.
    - Alupis 4y ago
      It's been a problem with flight sims since day one. Each "controller" be it your mouse, a joystick, flight yoke, game controller, etc, all have a different amount of available deflection on the physical device, and that has to be translated into deflection in-game. Take a flight yoke for example - you might have say 120 degrees of rotation available physically on the device, but the actual aircraft has 180 degrees. This means the sim-pilot doesn't have a connection with what is happening in the real-world vs what is happening in-sim, making minute changes a lot more challenging. It's even worse for things like joysticks that have a very low available deflection already. Moving the stick a few mm's could result in an uncontrolled roll in-sim. To help mitigate this, most sims offer a scalable conversion factor for controller input, but it's never perfect. > In real life, there'd be feedback on the flight stick or yoke due to all the air hitting the control surface Also, not all aircraft are direct linkage anymore, and most (all) commercial airline aircraft (your Boeing 737, 787, 777, Airbus A320, etc) will either have simulated feedback or no feedback.
      - garaetjjte 4y ago
        >your Boeing 737 Not that one :)
        Alupis 4y ago
        Good catch. I wasn't sure if the newest variants were still mechanical linkage or if they had been "updated" with fly-by-wire systems. It seems it's still predominantly mechanical, with fly-by-wire sprinkled in here and there.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_MAX#Structural_and_other_changes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_MAX#Structural_and_...
- iamtheworstdev 4y ago
  MSFS is just eye candy. It's physics and plane models are terrible.. especially the avionics last I tried them.
jamesy0ung 4y ago
> I find DCS to be the best of the bunch, and MSFS too gimmicky to my taste. 100% agree, I enjoy the systems simulation in X-Plane, but I also want a DCS style native multiplayer so I can do formation

ZeroCool2u 4y ago

I grew up on flight sims thanks to my Dad. He loved WWII dogfighting and was enthralled with the IL-2 Sturmovik series, but he got me into it with Crimson Skies. Now when we have some free overlapping time and the time zones are kind to us (He's in Europe), we hop into VTOL-VR together and it's just fantastic. Can actually wave at each other from our cockpits while we're on different continents and with the new helicopter DLC we can pilot/gunner in the same craft with each other.

edgefield 4y ago
What’s the setup for this? Sounds really interesting.
- ZeroCool2u 4y ago
  That's the best part, compared to people's crazy HOTAS setups, this is all relatively minimal. I just have my Valve Index connected to my desktop. My dad uses an HP Reverb G2 also connected to his desktop. His setup is technically less overhead, as the Reverb doesn't have the light houses the Index has. Everything runs through Steam and just works. It's not crazy cheap, but it's a blast and it's super easy to hop in and out of.
miketery 4y ago
IL-2 Sturmovik had some of the best physics for spins[1] out of any simulators at the time. Not sure how far things have come but from what I can tell sims still struggle with this. 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spin_(aerodynamics) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spin_(aerodynamics)

kirrent 4y ago

A bit niche, but I'd add in Condor and its excellent thermal, ridge, wave, general weather simulations which make virtual soaring satisfying. It's good enough to have races in and you can even connect your normal XCSoar device.

Buttons840 4y ago

Thanks for mentioning Tiny Combat Arena, that looks really cool. I was really hoping it was going to have a dynamic campaign like Falcon 4, an old MicroProse game, where players took part in a vast AI driven war campaign. The dynamic campaign was so cool, one time I was taxiing, preparing to take off for some routine mission when a bunch of Patriot SAM missiles nearby start firing off into the horizon. The game was simulating an actual, unplanned, attack 30 miles away and nearby air defense was responding. It was none of my concern though, it wasn't part of my mission, at least not until I got into the air. I really like the idea of a flight simulator that tries to enable realistic things to happen, like stalling or being able to loft missiles, etc. I don't care as much about having the airplanes handle like real airplanes. I have a keyboard, mouse, and cheap joystick, I'm not going to get a realistic flight experience out of these, period, and spending 80% of the development effort on getting the airplanes to feel like their real counterparts isn't important to me.

jelkand 4y ago
That campaign is alive and well in Falcon BMS, a community built game on top of the old falcon games. It’s truly impressive how much work and fidelity they’ve been able to build as a team of volunteers.