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Good catch. They use weasel words "Dartmouth is now removing the loan requirement for undergraduates from families with annual income of more than $125,000 wh

Good catch. They use weasel words "Dartmouth is now removing the loan requirement for undergraduates from families with annual income of more than $125,000 who receive need-based financial aid." Most students coming from families earning 125k+ won't actually qualify for any aid. The entire financial aid system is broken. Have a domestic violence situation at home, so your parents don't want to fill your FASA out, no aid for you ! Still live with your supportive parents at 24, you automatically get the max amount. If I ran the world, I would give everyone aid for up to 6 years, and get rid of affirmative action completely. I'd argue the vast vast majority of students are better served going to a community college first. Figure out if college is even something you want to do , and if it is, get yourself a part-time job or better yet a full-time one so you understand how to manage money.

stevetron 4y ago
I went to a community college first. I also worked in my dad's business, sometimes behind the cash register. I've had my own consulting business, I think I know a little bit about 'handling money', and I don't consider myself particularly better served by that community college bit.
- ekam 4y ago
  Also went to CC but I highly disagree, it was great saving two years of tuition costs
rayiner 4y ago
> Most students coming from families earning 125k+ won't actually qualify for any aid. Good?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- kaesar14 4y ago
  75k a year of college is affordable for a household income of 150k? Really?
  - rayiner 4y ago
    If you’re family is making $150k/year then your kids don’t need the leg up from going to an Ivy League school.
    - kaesar14 4y ago
      Really? So the only people who should be able to go to Ivy League schools are those poor enough to get aid and those rich enough to pay for the entire fee? We shouldn't be evaluating our youth on their merit? What kind of solution is that? Great way to make sure that the children of the professional class of people who make that sort of money (lawyers, engineers, nurses) not work as hard as possible and use their upbringing to contribute to the future of the country. Putrid take.
      - rayiner 4y ago
        > Really? So the only people who should be able to go to Ivy League schools are those poor enough to get aid and those rich enough to pay for the entire fee? Giving poor kids a leg up over upper middle class kids is a win regardless of what you do with rich kids. That’s a separate issue. > Great way to make sure that the children of the professional class of people who make that sort of money (lawyers, engineers, nurses) not work as hard as possible and use their upbringing to contribute to the future of the country. The upper middle class has been instrumental in the last few decades in driving inequality. Behind every factory that’s shut down in Milwaukee and outsourced to China there’s lawyers and consultants and even logistical engineers making that happen. See: https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2017/jul/15/how-us-middle-classes-hoard-opportunity-privilege https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2017/jul/15/how-us-mi...
        tuckerman 4y ago
        So we should be punishing children of consultants to make them atone for the hereditary sins of writing reports/collecting information so some executive somewhere can actually make the call?
- oh_sigh 4y ago
  Why? Why do parents even have an expected contribution for college? I mean, if they want to help their kids out, then go for it, but why is the expectation that when one adult purchases a certain service, we analyze the finances of related adults to determine how much the service should cost. No other thing operates like that.
  - prepend 4y ago
    I think most parents help their kids. For me, my parents had tax problems so I was unable to complete a FAFSA so I couldn’t get any aid that depended on the FAFSA. Although I don’t know a fix because if you had special situations for people like me, people would abuse it. I had a friend with divorced parents. The dad was pretty wealthy making like $500/year and paying the mom $100k/year in child support so the mom didn’t work and had like $3k tax returns from some part time job. She swore an affidavit that she received zero income from the dad and that the son was estranged from the dad. So the friend got a 100% needs based scholarship. It’s not like schools have an investigative arm to test claims.
kristianbrigman 4y ago
I think this is a great idea, but for different reasons than you’d think. If you read around, there is an epidemic of college freshman whose parents have the ambition, and will do whatever to force their kid into the college and even the major they choose…(sample: https://www.amazon.com/How-Raise-Adult-Overparenting-Prepare/dp/1250093635 https://www.amazon.com/How-Raise-Adult-Overparenting-Prepare..., these are students entering Stanford whose can’t make their own decisions). Who ended up stuck with the loans for these degrees that the kids may not want or have the independence to take advantage of? Not the parents… the students are the ones suffering for their parents’ ambition. Obviously not the whole picture, and maybe it’s not completely right yet, but I think this particular direction will help some of those students.
mike00632 4y ago
You mention affirmative action but not legacy admissions?
fiftyfifty 4y ago
This is not accurate, I just had a kid graduate from Dartmouth a couple of years ago and my wife and I make right around $150k combined with her working part time. We paid around $35,000/year, so Dartmouth covered about half of tuition costs. We did also take advantage of the federal student loans, it seems reasonable for the kids to have a little skin in the game as well.
- 999900000999 4y ago
  35k a year is a ton of money. No way the typical 6 figure earning couple has that. I make a good amount too, and I don't have a spare 3k per month. Let's just say you have a rough time after 2 years. At community college , you're out maybe 2 or 3k total. Using your own numbers, that would be 70k spent without a degree.

stevetron 4y ago

I went to a community college first. I also worked in my dad's business, sometimes behind the cash register. I've had my own consulting business, I think I know a little bit about 'handling money', and I don't consider myself particularly better served by that community college bit.

ekam 4y ago
Also went to CC but I highly disagree, it was great saving two years of tuition costs

rayiner 4y ago

> Most students coming from families earning 125k+ won't actually qualify for any aid. Good?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
kaesar14 4y ago
75k a year of college is affordable for a household income of 150k? Really?
- rayiner 4y ago
  If you’re family is making $150k/year then your kids don’t need the leg up from going to an Ivy League school.
  - kaesar14 4y ago
    Really? So the only people who should be able to go to Ivy League schools are those poor enough to get aid and those rich enough to pay for the entire fee? We shouldn't be evaluating our youth on their merit? What kind of solution is that? Great way to make sure that the children of the professional class of people who make that sort of money (lawyers, engineers, nurses) not work as hard as possible and use their upbringing to contribute to the future of the country. Putrid take.
    - rayiner 4y ago
      > Really? So the only people who should be able to go to Ivy League schools are those poor enough to get aid and those rich enough to pay for the entire fee? Giving poor kids a leg up over upper middle class kids is a win regardless of what you do with rich kids. That’s a separate issue. > Great way to make sure that the children of the professional class of people who make that sort of money (lawyers, engineers, nurses) not work as hard as possible and use their upbringing to contribute to the future of the country. The upper middle class has been instrumental in the last few decades in driving inequality. Behind every factory that’s shut down in Milwaukee and outsourced to China there’s lawyers and consultants and even logistical engineers making that happen. See: https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2017/jul/15/how-us-middle-classes-hoard-opportunity-privilege https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2017/jul/15/how-us-mi...
      - tuckerman 4y ago
        So we should be punishing children of consultants to make them atone for the hereditary sins of writing reports/collecting information so some executive somewhere can actually make the call?
oh_sigh 4y ago
Why? Why do parents even have an expected contribution for college? I mean, if they want to help their kids out, then go for it, but why is the expectation that when one adult purchases a certain service, we analyze the finances of related adults to determine how much the service should cost. No other thing operates like that.
- prepend 4y ago
  I think most parents help their kids. For me, my parents had tax problems so I was unable to complete a FAFSA so I couldn’t get any aid that depended on the FAFSA. Although I don’t know a fix because if you had special situations for people like me, people would abuse it. I had a friend with divorced parents. The dad was pretty wealthy making like $500/year and paying the mom $100k/year in child support so the mom didn’t work and had like $3k tax returns from some part time job. She swore an affidavit that she received zero income from the dad and that the son was estranged from the dad. So the friend got a 100% needs based scholarship. It’s not like schools have an investigative arm to test claims.

kristianbrigman 4y ago

I think this is a great idea, but for different reasons than you’d think. If you read around, there is an epidemic of college freshman whose parents have the ambition, and will do whatever to force their kid into the college and even the major they choose…(sample: https://www.amazon.com/How-Raise-Adult-Overparenting-Prepare/dp/1250093635 https://www.amazon.com/How-Raise-Adult-Overparenting-Prepare..., these are students entering Stanford whose can’t make their own decisions). Who ended up stuck with the loans for these degrees that the kids may not want or have the independence to take advantage of? Not the parents… the students are the ones suffering for their parents’ ambition. Obviously not the whole picture, and maybe it’s not completely right yet, but I think this particular direction will help some of those students.

mike00632 4y ago

You mention affirmative action but not legacy admissions?

fiftyfifty 4y ago

This is not accurate, I just had a kid graduate from Dartmouth a couple of years ago and my wife and I make right around $150k combined with her working part time. We paid around $35,000/year, so Dartmouth covered about half of tuition costs. We did also take advantage of the federal student loans, it seems reasonable for the kids to have a little skin in the game as well.

999900000999 4y ago
35k a year is a ton of money. No way the typical 6 figure earning couple has that. I make a good amount too, and I don't have a spare 3k per month. Let's just say you have a rough time after 2 years. At community college , you're out maybe 2 or 3k total. Using your own numbers, that would be 70k spent without a degree.