3 ms·

I see this explanation of the grind of online dating a lot, and I think it misses a more fundamental point: people fundamentally are pretty terrible at talking

I see this explanation of the grind of online dating a lot, and I think it misses a more fundamental point: people fundamentally are pretty terrible at talking to strangers. Without conversational skills, a vast majority of online dating conversations simply fizzle out; often times simply due to disinterest, but I think almost always due to a lack of ability to hold a conversation and be both interesting and interested. I find there's actually a lot of success to be had online dating, if you just know how to talk to people and learn about them! It seems like such a tautology but I think it really is that simple.

scarmig 4y ago
If it were just a matter of people being terrible at talking to strangers, you'd see the same issues that affect straight dating apps affect gay dating ones. They don't. (That also applies to the comment you're replying to). Any explanation of the shittiness of straight dating apps has to center gender norms and roles.
- idealmedtech 4y ago
  I won't claim to speak for an entire community, but among my many queer friends this seems to be a common thru line! Of course like anything social there's never one clear explanation to any phenomenon.
- klipt 4y ago
  Dating apps don't want you to have a successful relationship because then they lose you as a customer. They want you to at most have a short fling and come back. But having no success and scrolling endlessly is also fine by them.
psyc 4y ago
I’m good at conversation and getting to know people and I had no success with online dating (as opposed to acceptable success with serendipitous dating). I always thought it was because it’s hard to integrate them into your life. They’ve come from out of nowhere, your friend circles don’t overlap, and your daily paths don’t cross. It’s extra effort to make that stuff happen after the fact, and even then it doesn’t feel real somehow. I suppose it depends on certain aspects of your personality, and what makes you feel close to people. For every relationship I ever had, I had the opportunity to observe them, get to know them in person, maybe flirt, sometimes be friends. Sometimes for weeks. Sometimes for years, without any express intent. With online dating you’re both saying upfront that you’re evaluating each other as dating material, knowing only the fluff they wrote about themselves, or I take it with this generation only what they look like. All that will probably always feel too weird for me.
- idealmedtech 4y ago
  That's definitely true! It's so much easier to date in person from a logistical standpoint, and I think your comment also hints at what I think is kind of a paradox: in today's social spaces, being a kind and conscientious individual often means giving strangers their space, especially in places that used to be centers of socialization; gyms, coffee shops, parks etc. But by doing this, your opportunities for organic relationships dry up significantly, especially if you're not consistent about being in those spaces. So often times people feel forced into online dating as one of the few "sanctioned" spaces where it's still considered okay to flirt with strangers.
  - throwaway515 4y ago
    > So often times people feel forced into online dating as one of the few "sanctioned" spaces where it's still considered okay to flirt with strangers. This has been the story of my life. I think there is a certain type of person - physical attractiveness is part of it, but charisma is even bigger – who can "get away with" flirting in unsanctioned spaces. It's a combination of being confident enough to break taboo, perceptive enough to read subtle interest cues, and being attractive enough for those interest cues to be non-zero. I've tried to be that person from time to time, but it almost always breaks down on one of those axes, thus consigning most of my dating efforts to the soul-crushing grind of dating sites/apps.
    - throwaway34135 4y ago
      See I think there are no "unsanctioned places" except for maybe a mosque or a funeral. I think the real unwritten rule is, don't flirt with someone unless you're reasonably confident that they'd like to be flirted with. Some people might be able to figure that out in a matter of minutes, and others might need to get to know someone over the course of weeks or months in a casual group setting to figure it out. I am sorry to say, but I think people who believe flirting is not allowed probably have not put in the effort to be able to read social cues, don't have an aptitude for it, or never learned to flirt in a non-offputting way.
bgroat 4y ago
Years ago my Dad wanted to try online dating and I strongly discouraged it. "Dad, you're old (in his 60s), and short (5'5")" You're going to be filtered out of everyone's automated search. But my Dad is funny and can talk to anyone. I kept telling him, OkCupid isn't your scene! Meetup.com is! Unfortunately, he didn't listen to me
deckard1 4y ago
> if you just know how to talk to people and learn about them! dating is a two way street. If the other party just gives one line answers and does nothing to try to move a conversation forward, then it just becomes a job interview. You can't just magically get someone to open up when they refuse. It doesn't help that, at least from a guy's perspective, it seems about 80% of women are really just trying to get instagram followers. Dating also becomes a problem once you finally meet. You will never be more interesting than the smartphone in front of the other person. That person has the entire world in their hand. You can't possibly compete with TikTok or Tinder. You go to the restroom and the other person will go swiping on Tinder. I really do believe humanity is doomed. Like really, actually, doomed. The internet is too much for our monkey brain.
- collegeburner 4y ago
  > 80% of women are really just trying to get instagram followers. These days they aren't even trying for of subscribers or ig followers, they just straight up put their cashapp in their bio. I have friends who have done that and made 100s of $ before their accounts got banned. And some didn't even get banned. It's also true that a lot of people are on there but not realy to date. Like just to get compliments/validation. Not all girls either, just guys it doesn't work as well. Instead, a lot of us are on there just to look at/rate girls. At parties these days you will sometimes see a group of guys looking around somebody's phone "rating" girls on tinder.

scarmig 4y ago

If it were just a matter of people being terrible at talking to strangers, you'd see the same issues that affect straight dating apps affect gay dating ones. They don't. (That also applies to the comment you're replying to). Any explanation of the shittiness of straight dating apps has to center gender norms and roles.

idealmedtech 4y ago
I won't claim to speak for an entire community, but among my many queer friends this seems to be a common thru line! Of course like anything social there's never one clear explanation to any phenomenon.
klipt 4y ago
Dating apps don't want you to have a successful relationship because then they lose you as a customer. They want you to at most have a short fling and come back. But having no success and scrolling endlessly is also fine by them.

psyc 4y ago

I’m good at conversation and getting to know people and I had no success with online dating (as opposed to acceptable success with serendipitous dating). I always thought it was because it’s hard to integrate them into your life. They’ve come from out of nowhere, your friend circles don’t overlap, and your daily paths don’t cross. It’s extra effort to make that stuff happen after the fact, and even then it doesn’t feel real somehow. I suppose it depends on certain aspects of your personality, and what makes you feel close to people. For every relationship I ever had, I had the opportunity to observe them, get to know them in person, maybe flirt, sometimes be friends. Sometimes for weeks. Sometimes for years, without any express intent. With online dating you’re both saying upfront that you’re evaluating each other as dating material, knowing only the fluff they wrote about themselves, or I take it with this generation only what they look like. All that will probably always feel too weird for me.

idealmedtech 4y ago
That's definitely true! It's so much easier to date in person from a logistical standpoint, and I think your comment also hints at what I think is kind of a paradox: in today's social spaces, being a kind and conscientious individual often means giving strangers their space, especially in places that used to be centers of socialization; gyms, coffee shops, parks etc. But by doing this, your opportunities for organic relationships dry up significantly, especially if you're not consistent about being in those spaces. So often times people feel forced into online dating as one of the few "sanctioned" spaces where it's still considered okay to flirt with strangers.
- throwaway515 4y ago
  > So often times people feel forced into online dating as one of the few "sanctioned" spaces where it's still considered okay to flirt with strangers. This has been the story of my life. I think there is a certain type of person - physical attractiveness is part of it, but charisma is even bigger – who can "get away with" flirting in unsanctioned spaces. It's a combination of being confident enough to break taboo, perceptive enough to read subtle interest cues, and being attractive enough for those interest cues to be non-zero. I've tried to be that person from time to time, but it almost always breaks down on one of those axes, thus consigning most of my dating efforts to the soul-crushing grind of dating sites/apps.
  - throwaway34135 4y ago
    See I think there are no "unsanctioned places" except for maybe a mosque or a funeral. I think the real unwritten rule is, don't flirt with someone unless you're reasonably confident that they'd like to be flirted with. Some people might be able to figure that out in a matter of minutes, and others might need to get to know someone over the course of weeks or months in a casual group setting to figure it out. I am sorry to say, but I think people who believe flirting is not allowed probably have not put in the effort to be able to read social cues, don't have an aptitude for it, or never learned to flirt in a non-offputting way.

bgroat 4y ago

Years ago my Dad wanted to try online dating and I strongly discouraged it. "Dad, you're old (in his 60s), and short (5'5")" You're going to be filtered out of everyone's automated search. But my Dad is funny and can talk to anyone. I kept telling him, OkCupid isn't your scene! Meetup.com is! Unfortunately, he didn't listen to me

deckard1 4y ago

> if you just know how to talk to people and learn about them! dating is a two way street. If the other party just gives one line answers and does nothing to try to move a conversation forward, then it just becomes a job interview. You can't just magically get someone to open up when they refuse. It doesn't help that, at least from a guy's perspective, it seems about 80% of women are really just trying to get instagram followers. Dating also becomes a problem once you finally meet. You will never be more interesting than the smartphone in front of the other person. That person has the entire world in their hand. You can't possibly compete with TikTok or Tinder. You go to the restroom and the other person will go swiping on Tinder. I really do believe humanity is doomed. Like really, actually, doomed. The internet is too much for our monkey brain.

collegeburner 4y ago
> 80% of women are really just trying to get instagram followers. These days they aren't even trying for of subscribers or ig followers, they just straight up put their cashapp in their bio. I have friends who have done that and made 100s of $ before their accounts got banned. And some didn't even get banned. It's also true that a lot of people are on there but not realy to date. Like just to get compliments/validation. Not all girls either, just guys it doesn't work as well. Instead, a lot of us are on there just to look at/rate girls. At parties these days you will sometimes see a group of guys looking around somebody's phone "rating" girls on tinder.