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Genuine question, why don't you just use desktop linux? I'm curious as to what pain points make you avoid it. Do you prefer the windows GUI interface? do you n

Genuine question, why don't you just use desktop linux? I'm curious as to what pain points make you avoid it. Do you prefer the windows GUI interface? do you not want to deal with with updates breaking your system or having to manage things yourself? or are there programs that you use on windows that aren't available on linux? (or something else). I want to stress that this is a good faith question. (since it seems flame-war territory adjacent, which I'm not interested in getting into).

bmitc 4y ago
Desktop Linux does not run many, many useful apps, and I don't want to continually struggle with drivers and more. If apps do run on Linux, they can often be terrible. I think the other question is, why would one want to use desktop Linux? With Windows 11 and WSL2, I get both. I can run all my normal apps on Windows 11, and if I really want to run GUI apps on WSL2, I can do that too. Honestly, Windows plus WSL is the most "just works" platform out there right now. macOS is far too brittle and a compromise between high-level OS and a Unix-like environment. Linux does Linux, obviously, but it struggles as a low-friction, high-level OS.
- ISV_Damocles 4y ago
  Will have to "agree to disagree" on your conclusion here. GNOME 4 is superior to Windows and MacOS as low-friction, high-level OS in my experience. Control panel is clear, if spartan, three finger gestures stolen from MacOS "just work", and the desktop just stays out of the way so I can focus on the applications that I really care about. I have not had a "struggle with drivers" for over a decade with Ubuntu, Fedora, and Manjaro (YMMV in other distros of course, but it's much more uniform these days), and Windows has become even worse with doing unnecessary BS work in the background slowing down the GUI such that heavyweight desktops like GNOME and KDE feel as svelte as LXDE in comparison. I honestly can't stand any time I have to use a Windows machine due to how inconsistent the settings are, how many ~200-300ms pauses happen randomly, especially when I'm trying to type, and applications that don't "just work" but only because of the high marketshare I can google a solution. (MacOS is less viscerally disgusting to me, but more disappointing due to all of the "small" bugs that have creeped in despite having 100% control of the hardware in question. Wake-from-sleep shouldn't screw up the Wifi, unplugging and plugging back in an external monitor shouldn't shuffle the window locations, etc.)
  - sdflhasjd 4y ago
    My big issue, and friction generator is that Linux - as a desktop - is always a year or more behind consumer hardware, and it unfortunately perpetually struggles with drivers. Last time I tried Linux, driver support for my new graphics card was poor, my multi-monitor displayport setup was unsupported, DPI scaling - despite even Windows supporting it well for the previous 5 years - was quite bad (and non-integer scaling especially so). Even my CPU simply didn't work without some custom boot args. So when it comes to "just works", the year of the linux desktop is here if your hardware is at least 2 years old. There's nothing wrong with 2-year-old hardware, but whenever I get a new computer, I install Windows and it just works, rarely do I ever have a good enough reason to switch to Linux given the effort involved.
    - ISV_Damocles 4y ago
      Sorry you've been unlucky, but I've bought brand new Dell and Lenovo laptops and slapped Fedora on them and they just worked with no driver BS involved. Literally did this just a few months ago. Ubuntu/Debian tend to take longer to support brand new hardware because they're more conservative with kernel updates, but you can also just use the System76 PPA to get a super-recent kernel on Ubuntu. But faster-paced or rolling distros like Fedora or Manjaro are best for that kind of thing. I haven't had a single GPU-related issue, AMD or nVidia, for about a decade, if you're willing to go with non-free drivers.
      - bmitc 4y ago
        I think your experience is the outlier and not that the other person was "unlucky". Screen sharing is not working on a "mobile desktop" Thinkpad laptop with Red Hat Linux, a paid Linux distribution no less, freshly installed due to poor communication between several screen sharing apps and drivers or just poor drivers. Outlook is not available for Linux. And the least keeps on going. > I haven't had a single GPU-related issue, AMD or nVidia, for about a decade While I might be off-base, I would wager that you have probably forgotten and not noticed the amount of times you have debugged these things and other driver-related issues.
- the_third_wave 4y ago
  This is more or less the opposite of my experience which has seen Linux installs get so easy that I can guide my 84yo mother over the "phone" (Nextcloud Talk but you get the idea) through one where installing Windows on the same hardware is (if not impossible) a lot harder due to the need to get hold of and install vendor drivers. The same goes for installing applications where sudo apt install name_of_application is far easier that find installable on web, make sure it does not come with a bunch of spy/malware, run installer, answer inane questions to be left with yet another auto-updating program built in a toolkit which looks radically different from all the other ones on the system. Is the Linux experience perfect? Certainly not, there can be hiccups - try guiding someone on the other side of a phone line through connecting one of those Dell USB3 docks which needs that Synaptic-provided DisplayPort driver - but compared to Windows it is a breath of fresh air. Since Linux in general only serves one master - you - where Windows has to serve at least two - Microsoft first, you may come in second but it is quite possible for some other vendors to push themselves in front of that queue - this is hardly surprising.
sbarre 4y ago
Because I only have room in my apartment for one PC, and I want something that can do all my work, but also play games, do hobby dev with my Index VR headset, do good photo and video editing with the software I already know how to use, etc.. I have nothing against Linux (or MacOS), and it was a fair question.. =) I think for lots of people it would be a very suitable choice, and if I had a "work only" machine, I would absolutely consider Linux, probably even over MacOS at this point.. But for my specific uses, Windows (with WSL2) lets me do all the things I want to with one machine, so it's the winner.

bmitc 4y ago

Desktop Linux does not run many, many useful apps, and I don't want to continually struggle with drivers and more. If apps do run on Linux, they can often be terrible. I think the other question is, why would one want to use desktop Linux? With Windows 11 and WSL2, I get both. I can run all my normal apps on Windows 11, and if I really want to run GUI apps on WSL2, I can do that too. Honestly, Windows plus WSL is the most "just works" platform out there right now. macOS is far too brittle and a compromise between high-level OS and a Unix-like environment. Linux does Linux, obviously, but it struggles as a low-friction, high-level OS.

ISV_Damocles 4y ago
Will have to "agree to disagree" on your conclusion here. GNOME 4 is superior to Windows and MacOS as low-friction, high-level OS in my experience. Control panel is clear, if spartan, three finger gestures stolen from MacOS "just work", and the desktop just stays out of the way so I can focus on the applications that I really care about. I have not had a "struggle with drivers" for over a decade with Ubuntu, Fedora, and Manjaro (YMMV in other distros of course, but it's much more uniform these days), and Windows has become even worse with doing unnecessary BS work in the background slowing down the GUI such that heavyweight desktops like GNOME and KDE feel as svelte as LXDE in comparison. I honestly can't stand any time I have to use a Windows machine due to how inconsistent the settings are, how many ~200-300ms pauses happen randomly, especially when I'm trying to type, and applications that don't "just work" but only because of the high marketshare I can google a solution. (MacOS is less viscerally disgusting to me, but more disappointing due to all of the "small" bugs that have creeped in despite having 100% control of the hardware in question. Wake-from-sleep shouldn't screw up the Wifi, unplugging and plugging back in an external monitor shouldn't shuffle the window locations, etc.)
- sdflhasjd 4y ago
  My big issue, and friction generator is that Linux - as a desktop - is always a year or more behind consumer hardware, and it unfortunately perpetually struggles with drivers. Last time I tried Linux, driver support for my new graphics card was poor, my multi-monitor displayport setup was unsupported, DPI scaling - despite even Windows supporting it well for the previous 5 years - was quite bad (and non-integer scaling especially so). Even my CPU simply didn't work without some custom boot args. So when it comes to "just works", the year of the linux desktop is here if your hardware is at least 2 years old. There's nothing wrong with 2-year-old hardware, but whenever I get a new computer, I install Windows and it just works, rarely do I ever have a good enough reason to switch to Linux given the effort involved.
  - ISV_Damocles 4y ago
    Sorry you've been unlucky, but I've bought brand new Dell and Lenovo laptops and slapped Fedora on them and they just worked with no driver BS involved. Literally did this just a few months ago. Ubuntu/Debian tend to take longer to support brand new hardware because they're more conservative with kernel updates, but you can also just use the System76 PPA to get a super-recent kernel on Ubuntu. But faster-paced or rolling distros like Fedora or Manjaro are best for that kind of thing. I haven't had a single GPU-related issue, AMD or nVidia, for about a decade, if you're willing to go with non-free drivers.
    - bmitc 4y ago
      I think your experience is the outlier and not that the other person was "unlucky". Screen sharing is not working on a "mobile desktop" Thinkpad laptop with Red Hat Linux, a paid Linux distribution no less, freshly installed due to poor communication between several screen sharing apps and drivers or just poor drivers. Outlook is not available for Linux. And the least keeps on going. > I haven't had a single GPU-related issue, AMD or nVidia, for about a decade While I might be off-base, I would wager that you have probably forgotten and not noticed the amount of times you have debugged these things and other driver-related issues.
the_third_wave 4y ago
This is more or less the opposite of my experience which has seen Linux installs get so easy that I can guide my 84yo mother over the "phone" (Nextcloud Talk but you get the idea) through one where installing Windows on the same hardware is (if not impossible) a lot harder due to the need to get hold of and install vendor drivers. The same goes for installing applications where sudo apt install name_of_application is far easier that find installable on web, make sure it does not come with a bunch of spy/malware, run installer, answer inane questions to be left with yet another auto-updating program built in a toolkit which looks radically different from all the other ones on the system. Is the Linux experience perfect? Certainly not, there can be hiccups - try guiding someone on the other side of a phone line through connecting one of those Dell USB3 docks which needs that Synaptic-provided DisplayPort driver - but compared to Windows it is a breath of fresh air. Since Linux in general only serves one master - you - where Windows has to serve at least two - Microsoft first, you may come in second but it is quite possible for some other vendors to push themselves in front of that queue - this is hardly surprising.

sbarre 4y ago

Because I only have room in my apartment for one PC, and I want something that can do all my work, but also play games, do hobby dev with my Index VR headset, do good photo and video editing with the software I already know how to use, etc.. I have nothing against Linux (or MacOS), and it was a fair question.. =) I think for lots of people it would be a very suitable choice, and if I had a "work only" machine, I would absolutely consider Linux, probably even over MacOS at this point.. But for my specific uses, Windows (with WSL2) lets me do all the things I want to with one machine, so it's the winner.