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I'm not so sure. The average age someone is the first time they watch porn is 11, well before some of the issues you mentioned would manifest. When a porn addi

I'm not so sure. The average age someone is the first time they watch porn is 11, well before some of the issues you mentioned would manifest. When a porn addiction is developed before you hit your teens it's hard to blame a dysfunctional sex life on externalities.

lotsofpulp 4y ago
I do not think an “addiction” is the problem. Obviously, everyone prefers the real thing to porn. What has changed is the availability of porn introducing an extremely low cost alternative to sex, reducing the impetus for making the effort to find a partner (relative to previous times). Maybe even reducing the impetus to putting in the effort to seduce an existing partner! Of course, it is not uniform across all men of course. I suspect those who are able to attract/interact with partners more easily will opt to do that, and those that are not will opt for the easier, lower cost option (even though there may be other long term costs).
- CodeSgt 4y ago
  > Obviously, everyone prefers the real thing to porn. That makes intuitive sense, but is far from the reality. Many men, even in otherwise healthy relationships, prefer porn. Again I really wish more data was collected on this but anecdotally I've seen hundreds on online discussions from both women who are concerned about their partner and declining sex life and from men who want to quit using porn to better service the needs of their partner. Porn addiction is real, serious, and more common than you may think.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    I think what I am trying to convey is that it is not an addiction like nicotine, caffeine, alcohol, heroine, where the brain wants the substance itself. With porn, it is the brain making a cost benefit calculation that putting in the effort for the real thing is not worth the cost relative to cost/benefit ratio of porn. As in do I make all the effort to get my wife in the mood, or do I open a website and be done with it. Or do I control my diet and exercise, or do I open a website and be done with it.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - CodeSgt 4y ago
      I understand what you're trying to convey and I'm sorry but it's just not true. Brain scans show the pathways for porn addiction are very similar to those found in cocain and amphetamine addicts. Perhaps this is true for you, but don't discredit porn addiction as not a "real addiction" when it's an established fact that it is one on par with substance abuse.
      - huachimingo 4y ago
        An addiction can be sometimes a masked emotional need/problem. -I want porn, because I carve intimacy -I want to smoke, so I can relax or be seen as Y. -I drink a lot of coffee because I dont have time for Quality Sleep.
        CodeSgt 4y ago
        Almost every single drug addict and alcoholic has an emotional basis for their addiction. Be it childhood trauma, a predisposition to anxiety/depression, etc. The fact that these reasons exist doesn't make the addiction any less of an addiction. It's often a reason why rehab centers try to take a holistic approach and not only tackle the addiction, but the surrounding lifestyle choices that further enable the addiction. It's not "addiction is a masked emotional needs problem" it's, "addiction is often accompanied by emotional needs problems". Subtly different, but different nonetheless.
      - yamazakiwi 4y ago
        Established fact? You are trying to make a porn addiction appear as bad as a meth addiction and that is just not based in reality. The outcomes and damage of substance abuse are more severe and should not be conflated.
        CodeSgt 4y ago
        The established fact is that porn addiction utilizes the same nuerological pathways as substance addiction. I said nothing of the outcomes, though I wouldn't be so sure. We don't have any data on the outcomes of porn addiction. I wonder how many young men have committed suicide in large part due to their porn addiction, or how many have lost their jobs. It's certainly a non-zero number.
  - juve1996 4y ago
    >Many men, even in otherwise healthy relationships, prefer porn. Do you have data of this phenomenon?
    - QuarterReptile 4y ago
      >Do you have data of this phenomenon? >Again I really wish more data was collected on this but anecdotally I've seen hundreds on online discussions from both women who are concerned about their partner and declining sex life and from men who want to quit using porn to better service the needs of their partner.
    - CodeSgt 4y ago
      > Again I really wish more data was collected on this You obviously know the answer to your question since I repeatedly stressed my lack of data and how it was anecdotal. We don't have any data either supporting or debunking that claim, I only am repeating what I've seen play out hundreds of time in various digital spaces. Some phenomena just haven't been studied in good enough detail to have hard data in either direction. A lack of data for an assertion doesn't disprove that assertion, it just makes it temporarily unprovable. I'm sure the majority of men in healthy relationship prefer sex with their partner to porn. I'm also sure there are a non-trivial amount who do prefer porn.
      - juve1996 4y ago
        Saying you wish there was more data doesn't imply that there is no data, so I figured I'd ask if there was something. I think anecdotally you may be right. But preference is a very hard thing to determine. It's unfair to compare porn to sex the same way it is unfair to compare watching a sport to playing it. One requires very little effort, the other monumental effort comparatively.
        CodeSgt 4y ago
        > Saying you wish there was more data doesn't imply that there is no data, so I figured I'd ask if there was something Ah yeah, fair enough. My mistake.
  - dialdial 4y ago
    Another piece of anecdata… Ive experienced the effects of porn addiction, and/or viewing from a young age, from both sides. I have pretty niche tastes since i started watching in my very early teens, and though i find men very attractive its harder to finish with them. Ive been with several partners who preferred porn to me. The latest had very, very unrealistic standards. They objectified my body, hard, and I swear their porn use affected their capacity for empathy. They said and did things that made me feel like a replaceable thing, they compared my to porn stars (and found me lacking). They would collect massive amounts of porn and run off to use it multiple times a day… which wouldve honestly been fine, except for the fact that it did really affect their ability to connect with me. After theyd use porn their mood and empathy / behavior towards me would markedly change for the worse. I am a fairly attractive, _very_ willing and attentive partner. These experiences have honestly really damaged my self esteem and willingness to date. I have also since stopped using porn a) to fix the first line and b) i cannot watch it without being reminded of my experiences with these men and their criticisms of my body.

lotsofpulp 4y ago

I do not think an “addiction” is the problem. Obviously, everyone prefers the real thing to porn. What has changed is the availability of porn introducing an extremely low cost alternative to sex, reducing the impetus for making the effort to find a partner (relative to previous times). Maybe even reducing the impetus to putting in the effort to seduce an existing partner! Of course, it is not uniform across all men of course. I suspect those who are able to attract/interact with partners more easily will opt to do that, and those that are not will opt for the easier, lower cost option (even though there may be other long term costs).

CodeSgt 4y ago
> Obviously, everyone prefers the real thing to porn. That makes intuitive sense, but is far from the reality. Many men, even in otherwise healthy relationships, prefer porn. Again I really wish more data was collected on this but anecdotally I've seen hundreds on online discussions from both women who are concerned about their partner and declining sex life and from men who want to quit using porn to better service the needs of their partner. Porn addiction is real, serious, and more common than you may think.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  I think what I am trying to convey is that it is not an addiction like nicotine, caffeine, alcohol, heroine, where the brain wants the substance itself. With porn, it is the brain making a cost benefit calculation that putting in the effort for the real thing is not worth the cost relative to cost/benefit ratio of porn. As in do I make all the effort to get my wife in the mood, or do I open a website and be done with it. Or do I control my diet and exercise, or do I open a website and be done with it.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - CodeSgt 4y ago
    I understand what you're trying to convey and I'm sorry but it's just not true. Brain scans show the pathways for porn addiction are very similar to those found in cocain and amphetamine addicts. Perhaps this is true for you, but don't discredit porn addiction as not a "real addiction" when it's an established fact that it is one on par with substance abuse.
    - huachimingo 4y ago
      An addiction can be sometimes a masked emotional need/problem. -I want porn, because I carve intimacy -I want to smoke, so I can relax or be seen as Y. -I drink a lot of coffee because I dont have time for Quality Sleep.
      - CodeSgt 4y ago
        Almost every single drug addict and alcoholic has an emotional basis for their addiction. Be it childhood trauma, a predisposition to anxiety/depression, etc. The fact that these reasons exist doesn't make the addiction any less of an addiction. It's often a reason why rehab centers try to take a holistic approach and not only tackle the addiction, but the surrounding lifestyle choices that further enable the addiction. It's not "addiction is a masked emotional needs problem" it's, "addiction is often accompanied by emotional needs problems". Subtly different, but different nonetheless.
    - yamazakiwi 4y ago
      Established fact? You are trying to make a porn addiction appear as bad as a meth addiction and that is just not based in reality. The outcomes and damage of substance abuse are more severe and should not be conflated.
      - CodeSgt 4y ago
        The established fact is that porn addiction utilizes the same nuerological pathways as substance addiction. I said nothing of the outcomes, though I wouldn't be so sure. We don't have any data on the outcomes of porn addiction. I wonder how many young men have committed suicide in large part due to their porn addiction, or how many have lost their jobs. It's certainly a non-zero number.
- juve1996 4y ago
  >Many men, even in otherwise healthy relationships, prefer porn. Do you have data of this phenomenon?
  - QuarterReptile 4y ago
    >Do you have data of this phenomenon? >Again I really wish more data was collected on this but anecdotally I've seen hundreds on online discussions from both women who are concerned about their partner and declining sex life and from men who want to quit using porn to better service the needs of their partner.
  - CodeSgt 4y ago
    > Again I really wish more data was collected on this You obviously know the answer to your question since I repeatedly stressed my lack of data and how it was anecdotal. We don't have any data either supporting or debunking that claim, I only am repeating what I've seen play out hundreds of time in various digital spaces. Some phenomena just haven't been studied in good enough detail to have hard data in either direction. A lack of data for an assertion doesn't disprove that assertion, it just makes it temporarily unprovable. I'm sure the majority of men in healthy relationship prefer sex with their partner to porn. I'm also sure there are a non-trivial amount who do prefer porn.
    - juve1996 4y ago
      Saying you wish there was more data doesn't imply that there is no data, so I figured I'd ask if there was something. I think anecdotally you may be right. But preference is a very hard thing to determine. It's unfair to compare porn to sex the same way it is unfair to compare watching a sport to playing it. One requires very little effort, the other monumental effort comparatively.
      - CodeSgt 4y ago
        > Saying you wish there was more data doesn't imply that there is no data, so I figured I'd ask if there was something Ah yeah, fair enough. My mistake.
- dialdial 4y ago
  Another piece of anecdata… Ive experienced the effects of porn addiction, and/or viewing from a young age, from both sides. I have pretty niche tastes since i started watching in my very early teens, and though i find men very attractive its harder to finish with them. Ive been with several partners who preferred porn to me. The latest had very, very unrealistic standards. They objectified my body, hard, and I swear their porn use affected their capacity for empathy. They said and did things that made me feel like a replaceable thing, they compared my to porn stars (and found me lacking). They would collect massive amounts of porn and run off to use it multiple times a day… which wouldve honestly been fine, except for the fact that it did really affect their ability to connect with me. After theyd use porn their mood and empathy / behavior towards me would markedly change for the worse. I am a fairly attractive, _very_ willing and attentive partner. These experiences have honestly really damaged my self esteem and willingness to date. I have also since stopped using porn a) to fix the first line and b) i cannot watch it without being reminded of my experiences with these men and their criticisms of my body.