4 ms·

Despite all others blaming it on entertainment, porn, alcohol, working etc, I blame online dating. The bar and amount of work needed to get into relationship (

Despite all others blaming it on entertainment, porn, alcohol, working etc, I blame online dating. The bar and amount of work needed to get into relationship (I'm not into casual sex) is just too high for great amount of people.

slothtrop 4y ago
If anything it's been more facilitated than ever.
- csee 4y ago
  For the top few percent of men.
  - eropple 4y ago
    Touching the poop in these threads is always a bad idea. And this is more to the passer-by who might be reading and thinking that the person to whom I am replying is onto something (edited; I don't think 'csee is being disingenuous). In these sorts of claims, "the top few percent" is never actually defined, and it means that folks who do quite well for themselves but aren't unironically studly chads have to be cut out of their narrative. It is easier to assume that it's everyone's fault rather than your own, but I found that I did a lot better (not just romantically but--well--everywhere) when I worked on having reasons to like myself before I wanted other people to. The people who go on about "the top few percent of men" are most frequently so bitter that it can be detected from space, and that's a them problem. It was, for a while, a me problem. It requires concerted effort and desire to unscrew your head and to make yourself somebody you like, but it is doable. Therapy helps. So do honest friends who aren't in the same shitty boat you're in. I am not fit, I am affluent but not rich, but I try to be decent and patient and kind (which is different from being needy), and I do pretty well for myself. Saying "just do X" would be lying because of the "just" part, but--you can do okay for yourself too. You probably have to work at it some.
    - csee 4y ago
      You give good advice but I was commenting on the well documented asymmetry and inequality in outcomes that cut across gender lines which are likely magnified by these dating apps. It's not bitterness to point out objective facts that are highly relevant to the topic of conversation. "Improve yourself" is always the healthiest mindset on a personal level but that's not exactly deep analysis on the impact that these apps are having on our society or the lives of lower ranked men.
      - eropple 4y ago
        I dunno, from where I stand what you are defining as the problems of "lower ranked men" are symptoms of living in a late-capitalist society problems. It's not the app's fault that people respond to incentives; the way out, if "out" is to be defined as to find people who want to interact with you, to "not settle" or whatever, is to improve oneself. It can both suck and be the only option. Fortunately, it's a lot easier to be interesting than it is to be rich.
        csee 4y ago
        That is the only way out on a local, personal level, since that's all we have much control over. But how is it not the app's fault? When Twitter and Facebook create social dynamics that encourage outrage and division, I blame them (or at least I blame the incentives and systems that cause them to do this). Ditto for the impact that these dating apps are having.
        eropple 4y ago
        > But how is it not the app's fault? How is it? Like, okay, what's the alternative? I genuinely don't understand the criticism beyond "well, self-described low-status men are getting passed over because people have options." Should they not be getting passed over? Should people be taking one for the team for these self-described low-status men and dating them despite themselves? There have always been lonely people, and some so for good reasons and some for not. I am not sure that there's a way to substantiate that there are proportionally more of the latter group now or that dating apps etc. are accentuating it for this population. These apps do suck, don't get me wrong--they're gacha games, and they're structured like it--but the mode of criticism matters. As near as I can tell, the It's A Wonderful Life of this is "nothing", not "something theoretically better for self-described low-status men". It's not like people would be going to church to meet and then obligatorily marry Goody Marshall's cousin's son were it not for Tinder.
MrMember 4y ago
If you're a man and you don't have self esteem issues trying online dating is an excellent way to develop them. I tried it for maybe half a year. I'm decent looking, I have a good career, I'm tall enough that I get through most of the filters a lot of women put on height, I put effort into my profile and pictures. After all that I was ecstatic if I got even one match a week (and this was across three different apps). Maybe 25% of those resulted in conversations, none of those resulted in meeting up in real life. Outside of online dating where are you even supposed to meet women now? I see women saying all the time they don't want to be approached in public. COVID decimated my already fairly meager pool of friends that I see regularly so opportunities to meet people through friends are few and far between. On top of that most women near my age (mid 30s) are already in long term relationships. At this point I've mostly given up, now I'm trying to accept that I'll likely spend the rest of my life alone. It sucks.
- type-r 4y ago
  > Outside of online dating where are you even supposed to meet women now? I see women saying all the time they don't want to be approached in public. I would be careful with letting a few anecdotes from a minority of women drive your behavior so much. There's nothing wrong with approaching people in public. Especially if you go to eg a bar, many women will be open to having conversations. I met my current partner this very way.
- KptMarchewa 4y ago
  >If you're a man and you don't have self esteem issues trying online dating is an excellent way to develop them. Thanks, you've exactly described what I'm feeling.

slothtrop 4y ago

If anything it's been more facilitated than ever.

csee 4y ago
For the top few percent of men.
- eropple 4y ago
  Touching the poop in these threads is always a bad idea. And this is more to the passer-by who might be reading and thinking that the person to whom I am replying is onto something (edited; I don't think 'csee is being disingenuous). In these sorts of claims, "the top few percent" is never actually defined, and it means that folks who do quite well for themselves but aren't unironically studly chads have to be cut out of their narrative. It is easier to assume that it's everyone's fault rather than your own, but I found that I did a lot better (not just romantically but--well--everywhere) when I worked on having reasons to like myself before I wanted other people to. The people who go on about "the top few percent of men" are most frequently so bitter that it can be detected from space, and that's a them problem. It was, for a while, a me problem. It requires concerted effort and desire to unscrew your head and to make yourself somebody you like, but it is doable. Therapy helps. So do honest friends who aren't in the same shitty boat you're in. I am not fit, I am affluent but not rich, but I try to be decent and patient and kind (which is different from being needy), and I do pretty well for myself. Saying "just do X" would be lying because of the "just" part, but--you can do okay for yourself too. You probably have to work at it some.
  - csee 4y ago
    You give good advice but I was commenting on the well documented asymmetry and inequality in outcomes that cut across gender lines which are likely magnified by these dating apps. It's not bitterness to point out objective facts that are highly relevant to the topic of conversation. "Improve yourself" is always the healthiest mindset on a personal level but that's not exactly deep analysis on the impact that these apps are having on our society or the lives of lower ranked men.
    - eropple 4y ago
      I dunno, from where I stand what you are defining as the problems of "lower ranked men" are symptoms of living in a late-capitalist society problems. It's not the app's fault that people respond to incentives; the way out, if "out" is to be defined as to find people who want to interact with you, to "not settle" or whatever, is to improve oneself. It can both suck and be the only option. Fortunately, it's a lot easier to be interesting than it is to be rich.
      - csee 4y ago
        That is the only way out on a local, personal level, since that's all we have much control over. But how is it not the app's fault? When Twitter and Facebook create social dynamics that encourage outrage and division, I blame them (or at least I blame the incentives and systems that cause them to do this). Ditto for the impact that these dating apps are having.
        eropple 4y ago
        > But how is it not the app's fault? How is it? Like, okay, what's the alternative? I genuinely don't understand the criticism beyond "well, self-described low-status men are getting passed over because people have options." Should they not be getting passed over? Should people be taking one for the team for these self-described low-status men and dating them despite themselves? There have always been lonely people, and some so for good reasons and some for not. I am not sure that there's a way to substantiate that there are proportionally more of the latter group now or that dating apps etc. are accentuating it for this population. These apps do suck, don't get me wrong--they're gacha games, and they're structured like it--but the mode of criticism matters. As near as I can tell, the It's A Wonderful Life of this is "nothing", not "something theoretically better for self-described low-status men". It's not like people would be going to church to meet and then obligatorily marry Goody Marshall's cousin's son were it not for Tinder.

MrMember 4y ago

If you're a man and you don't have self esteem issues trying online dating is an excellent way to develop them. I tried it for maybe half a year. I'm decent looking, I have a good career, I'm tall enough that I get through most of the filters a lot of women put on height, I put effort into my profile and pictures. After all that I was ecstatic if I got even one match a week (and this was across three different apps). Maybe 25% of those resulted in conversations, none of those resulted in meeting up in real life. Outside of online dating where are you even supposed to meet women now? I see women saying all the time they don't want to be approached in public. COVID decimated my already fairly meager pool of friends that I see regularly so opportunities to meet people through friends are few and far between. On top of that most women near my age (mid 30s) are already in long term relationships. At this point I've mostly given up, now I'm trying to accept that I'll likely spend the rest of my life alone. It sucks.

type-r 4y ago
> Outside of online dating where are you even supposed to meet women now? I see women saying all the time they don't want to be approached in public. I would be careful with letting a few anecdotes from a minority of women drive your behavior so much. There's nothing wrong with approaching people in public. Especially if you go to eg a bar, many women will be open to having conversations. I met my current partner this very way.
KptMarchewa 4y ago
>If you're a man and you don't have self esteem issues trying online dating is an excellent way to develop them. Thanks, you've exactly described what I'm feeling.