Plus Chinese historians will have you believe they've been the first civilization around for 5k years. (the truth is there has been rise and fall, but each subs

Plus Chinese historians will have you believe they've been the first civilization around for 5k years. (the truth is there has been rise and fall, but each subsequent one claims to be the _real_ dynasty and so continues from the beginning) so is China new or old? I think the truth is geographical places rise and fall multiple times. They go through cycles both internally (need, growth, comfort, decay) and externally as their characteristics are useful/useless to the greater world around them. Eg: I doubt China would have established its current power without inexpensive labor, telecommunications, and American debt fueled consumerism. Had China been a middle power in like 1900-1950 then another country might have absorbed the USA's consumer demand